GNU bug report logs - #66582
annoying, needless warning messages from [fe]grep

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Noah Friedman <noah <at> splode.com>
To: bug-coreutils <at> gnu.org
Subject: annoying, needless warning messages from [fe]grep
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 17:44:39 -0700 (PDT)

Just because a program is considered deprecated or obsolete by a standards
committee, is no reason to actually force that program out of use or
availablity.  And since when does GNU adhere strictly to POSIX anyway?

So my bug report is this: fgrep and egrep should not emit any warning on
stderr about being obsolescent unless the environment POSIXLY_CORRECT is
set.  If you want to be *really* pedantic, it shouldn't emit a warning
unless POSIXLY_CORRECT is set to the specific standards level (or above) in
which it was declared obsolete.  :-P

Because goddammit, there are 40 years worth of old programs out there that
are going to keep using egrep, and as a crusty 50+ year old myself, I'm not
planning to train my fingers out of using it either. 

Just let some things *be*.

Message #8 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Sam James <sam <at> gentoo.org>
To: Noah Friedman <noah <at> splode.com>
Cc: bug-coreutils <at> gnu.org, 66582 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#66582: annoying, needless warning messages from [fe]grep
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 04:28:30 +0100

Noah Friedman <noah <at> splode.com> writes:

> Just because a program is considered deprecated or obsolete by a standards
> committee, is no reason to actually force that program out of use or
> availablity.  And since when does GNU adhere strictly to POSIX anyway?

grep is not from coreutils. As for the issue you discuss, it's being
brought up on the grep mailing lists already (and I agree with the whole
thing being silly).

Message #20 received at 66582 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>
To: Sam James <sam <at> gentoo.org>, Noah Friedman <noah <at> splode.com>
Cc: 66582 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#66582: annoying, needless warning messages from [fe]grep
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 21:36:03 -0700

On 2023-10-16 20:28, Sam James wrote:

> grep is not from coreutils. As for the issue you discuss, it's being
> brought up on the grep mailing lists already
I moved this new bug report to the grep package and merged it with the 
grep mailing list discussions, which already pretty much eliminated 
using POSIXLY_CORRECT as that environment variable is not meant for this 
sort of thing. For details please see <https://bugs.gnu.org/66582> and 
follow the "Merged with" links.


> and as a crusty 50+ year old myself, I'm not
> planning to train my fingers out of using it either.

I may have you beat there. I had been using egrep since 1976. I visited 
Bell Labs in the 1970s and talked to some of the people who developed 
Unix. I have fond memories of using egrep in complicated and unexpected 
ways (and having it crash on me). Sigh. Those were the days....

Message #23 received at 66582 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: arnold <at> skeeve.com
To: sam <at> gentoo.org, noah <at> splode.com, eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu
Cc: 66582 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#66582: annoying, needless warning messages from [fe]grep
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 01:13:13 -0600

I too agree with the sentiment that it's wrong to obsolete
egrep and fgrep, and have said so.

I received this today from a gawk pre-tester who is unhappy
with the warnings generated by egrep use in the gawk test suite:

| I haven't time to find those battles with the grep people: I just
| fail to understand how they have the arrogance to think that they
| can drop two tools --- egrep and fgrep --- that are part of the
| standard Unix toolbox, and Unix textbooks, and on the fingertips
| of millions of people.  That is simply not acceptable, and I hope
| that they see the error of their ways.

I doubt that error reports and discussions about this will
decrease over time; egrep and fgrep have been existing practice
for too long.

Thanks,

Arnold

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