X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:57:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B.170781818316365 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: report 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Received: via spool by submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B.170781818316365 (code B ref -1); Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:57:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Feb 2024 09:56:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41655 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rZpWW-0004Fq-AL for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2024 04:56:23 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:49158) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <philipk@HIDDEN>) id 1rZpWR-0004FV-6L for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2024 04:56:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <philipk@HIDDEN>) id 1rZpW9-00011k-Hi for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Tue, 13 Feb 2024 04:55:57 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <philipk@HIDDEN>) id 1rZpVu-0002yL-Jx for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Tue, 13 Feb 2024 04:55:57 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB1BA240104 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Tue, 13 Feb 2024 10:55:40 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1707818140; bh=AGhS5fAlCwcWwOhEzjbDQ5xuFmfJZUCEcTzYryQO7Yc=; h=From:To:Subject:OpenPGP:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type: From; b=mOiebyWuJ85kWAlRrae3f+KBZIOo4AXo/rQ+yrllPCMk41NiiGqTZXMIW3yUCv1eK FoGBzp3gASpwMAmDRr2uPk/UOalhhedhb00z9uvEhXGIiWM8zyGmxajvHEEE9Zkhe1 g9CeBU2U4d8u2RFoPHo2sZ6YKy1/oYIK8/by0Z/m9nqwo27N6N+Haa0CzfGDHLU4Tk SidGn0kwfoOilxz5UyHEYrrxj6bYHYNwN1xeT66Rm3lfcq6395Mx1/n7JqbEG2mJ/r 1f43U0Q+cFAIvQJfJSD9BiPWYFU10qF3gZzbCJbYa/NeSRoVv/I3e1uur24fgSnIob +7hg12V2iplqQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4TYxXX2gzYz9rxR for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Tue, 13 Feb 2024 10:55:40 +0100 (CET) From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> OpenPGP: id=7126E1DE2F0CE35C770BED01F2C3CC513DB89F66; url="https://keys.openpgp.org/vks/v1/by-fingerprint/7126E1DE2F0CE35C770BED01F2C3CC513DB89F66"; preference=signencrypt Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:55:39 +0000 Message-ID: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=philipk@HIDDEN; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain This is another useful command I find myself re-implementing every time I use an unmodified Emacs, that I think would provide some nice convenience for people used to classical Unix keybindings. --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-patch Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0001-Add-'kill-region-or-word'-command.patch Content-Description: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command From b08b5cca09e1534b7ec28f516c891065eff80a9f Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2024 10:51:22 +0100 Subject: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command * lisp/simple.el (kill-region-or-word): Add it. * etc/NEWS: Document it. --- etc/NEWS | 6 ++++++ lisp/simple.el | 9 +++++++++ 2 files changed, 15 insertions(+) diff --git a/etc/NEWS b/etc/NEWS index 6fae64728f2..e7e516d61a1 100644 --- a/etc/NEWS +++ b/etc/NEWS @@ -223,6 +223,12 @@ executable, if it exists. This should remove the need to change its value when installing GNU coreutils using something like ports or Homebrew. +--- +** New command 'kill-region-or-word'. +This command will kill a region, if it is active, or delete the last +word. As such, it is a convenient alternative binding for C-w, +providing a DWIM behaviour for both Emacs and Unix users. + +++ ** cl-print diff --git a/lisp/simple.el b/lisp/simple.el index 9a33049f4ca..bf4080fcf2d 100644 --- a/lisp/simple.el +++ b/lisp/simple.el @@ -8798,6 +8798,15 @@ backward-kill-word (interactive "p") (kill-word (- arg))) +(defun kill-region-or-word () + "Call `kill-region' if there is an active region. +Otherwise kill the last word, just like Unix." + (interactive) + (call-interactively + (if (use-region-p) + #'kill-region + #'backward-kill-word))) + (defun current-word (&optional strict really-word) "Return the word at or near point, as a string. The return value includes no text properties. -- 2.43.0 --=-=-=--
Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Subject: bug#69097: Acknowledgement ([PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command) Message-ID: <handler.69097.B.170781818316365.ack <at> debbugs.gnu.org> References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Gnu-PR-Message: ack 69097 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs X-Gnu-PR-Keywords: patch Reply-To: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:57:02 +0000 Thank you for filing a new bug report with debbugs.gnu.org. This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message has been received. Your message is being forwarded to the package maintainers and other interested parties for their attention; they will reply in due course. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please send it to 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Please do not send mail to help-debbugs@HIDDEN unless you wish to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system. --=20 69097: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D69097 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@HIDDEN with problems
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 07:38:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.171472185412829 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.171472185412829 (code B ref 69097); Fri, 03 May 2024 07:38:02 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2024 07:37:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46220 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s2nU6-0003Kr-1V for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 03:37:34 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:55065) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <philipk@HIDDEN>) id 1s2nU4-0003Kj-HR for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 03:37:33 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C6B9240103 for <69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 3 May 2024 09:37:03 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1714721824; bh=1K+pmI9QlCxv7tynatJP6MppAEQbfmx3+otVKsHax8U=; h=From:To:Subject:OpenPGP:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type: From; b=n675jBikEmPCcibERT5qHWXmDXx3stuAfz8sCmv7SrBteXdcV2sLb5iWqYACiKNAn 31Jk5eSElFk6kjC1zjRHy9nm03XE49vqEcYVtZcX8bTxgEmbXiPMKw1MAX7Vh5Co1D FhfcKNvrASkT2xTrvcd/BS8x/KX30TnbyCI1onT66BxpGarOjgn2BTCZ8H4gxMZo1Y 2XXPPBL4SKo1RzjgyNQgYgogFvwDbrLIm49vJKcdlwYvGy3XJQ73r64XE7f6LZrmJF B9QiUOFzxfZQkgDgCcuRKPULfXqnpQXTZo/VJBnXv/yVi3AY9+hrhQMio5f3CWSRKs jlpIjBqaldkFg== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4VW2gg3G7nz6tyG for <69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 3 May 2024 09:37:03 +0200 (CEST) From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> (Philip Kaludercic's message of "Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:55:39 +0000") References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> OpenPGP: id=7126E1DE2F0CE35C770BED01F2C3CC513DB89F66; url="https://keys.openpgp.org/vks/v1/by-fingerprint/7126E1DE2F0CE35C770BED01F2C3CC513DB89F66"; preference=signencrypt Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 07:37:03 +0000 Message-ID: <87wmob73ds.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> writes: > This is another useful command I find myself re-implementing every time > I use an unmodified Emacs, that I think would provide some nice > convenience for people used to classical Unix keybindings. ping? I had a discussion with RMS off-list and he seemed to be supportive of the change. -- Philip Kaludercic on peregrine
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 10:42:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.17147328677723 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Cc: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.17147328677723 (code B ref 69097); Fri, 03 May 2024 10:42:01 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2024 10:41:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46370 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s2qLj-00020V-B4 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 06:41:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39498) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1s2qLf-000201-MR for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 06:41:05 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1s2qLB-0000dz-9U; Fri, 03 May 2024 06:40:34 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=51Ex3LLhcFJZ1Tgq48N3F/CNy4Ecj/r2UHphGwLBwbQ=; b=QmOEPqZTubj0 WVv+DSl7CHEMS/q2/NXNGbgXUUkm2cpLXZjtSqioRnEDZRDnp6namcQgE9kdzVMwX4nOamn1cK762 zrHoGvLihf9hc8qlJYDEIcNW50FCXUslIN0ONBKBYaE85bgAOX6KJ8u+akHwHDgqZeagPEz4Wvpib vlPSH7UW1tXhFYGB+TfFvd9+59mGr7K0tpn5ih0UmVo7wehgyXOeHGWxstaUkrLIMwC7yeR5ug7DW 1D8DDKphjeS3DRKIXEwyU12i+99ty8E0V1tan6P3wbLPIuEzT5BB/6dQ7BQtpHm08yWUgFPwhQYQz ZGdnyBANgJ/6wrb4GUCC3Q==; Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 13:40:13 +0300 Message-Id: <861q6jji0i.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87wmob73ds.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Philip Kaludercic on Fri, 03 May 2024 07:37:03 +0000) References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmob73ds.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> > Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 07:37:03 +0000 > > Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> writes: > > > This is another useful command I find myself re-implementing every time > > I use an unmodified Emacs, that I think would provide some nice > > convenience for people used to classical Unix keybindings. > > ping? I had a discussion with RMS off-list and he seemed to be > supportive of the change. That's a problem with off-list discussions: no one knows about them. More to the point, can you explain why we need this, given the existence of kill-word? Also, this kills backward, something that is not evident, neither from the name of the command nor from the doc string (and the obscure reference to Unix doesn't help, IMO). Finally, having another command that kills the region doesn't seem justified, or is it?
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 10:49:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.17147333297935 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Cc: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.17147333297935 (code B ref 69097); Fri, 03 May 2024 10:49:01 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2024 10:48:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46375 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s2qTA-00023v-E3 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 06:48:48 -0400 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:34203) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <philipk@HIDDEN>) id 1s2qT6-00023p-03 for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 06:48:46 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BADE0240027 for <69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 3 May 2024 12:48:15 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1714733295; bh=KEV6wCEZEc69wUKn1/eVxvpf7wMpd+AQLmZ2LcFFUgs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:OpenPGP:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type:From; b=aG2IIyvjkUVCi9/atotFZvvCL8BmJ3e0zondiE0mLub4/bG1dwcswcEsL3HS1H9eA MkxXuH683zHM9jyyjBa53019uglLoc53DywtcTpaiE/nRV23SCj6TFEnGrbhfXtSSJ bXIZ1JQrpM/oLH/DgxgFPhK4WN9xZpgO1tpQtiqCrczNkeQs1DIEobMVluIaO+7Xv8 96mCdsYWFm2Str6yq2EeErHX2bSGPh9GUkNZjGaIG9RztxuzXcGjlADhIbshl44MV3 AbCRVTQxTwl+HXP5QFx89Az3VkMw5DBUyp/zyNL2dVIVOTdZ9tpO0u7ft4Vc3qlM36 YEHN2HIIz7dgg== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4VW6wG329nz9rxF; Fri, 3 May 2024 12:48:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <861q6jji0i.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 03 May 2024 13:40:13 +0300") References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmob73ds.fsf@HIDDEN> <861q6jji0i.fsf@HIDDEN> OpenPGP: id=7126E1DE2F0CE35C770BED01F2C3CC513DB89F66; url="https://keys.openpgp.org/vks/v1/by-fingerprint/7126E1DE2F0CE35C770BED01F2C3CC513DB89F66"; preference=signencrypt Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 10:48:13 +0000 Message-ID: <87o79n6uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> >> Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 07:37:03 +0000 >> >> Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> writes: >> >> > This is another useful command I find myself re-implementing every time >> > I use an unmodified Emacs, that I think would provide some nice >> > convenience for people used to classical Unix keybindings. >> >> ping? I had a discussion with RMS off-list and he seemed to be >> supportive of the change. > > That's a problem with off-list discussions: no one knows about them. I also realised this too late, if you want to I can resend the messages. > More to the point, can you explain why we need this, given the > existence of kill-word? > > Also, this kills backward, something that is not evident, neither from > the name of the command nor from the doc string (and the obscure > reference to Unix doesn't help, IMO). > > Finally, having another command that kills the region doesn't seem > justified, or is it? The motivation is sort of the same as with generalising `upcase-word' to `upcase-dwim'. If there is no active region, it behaves like `backward-kill-word' (which is what C-w does in a terminal as well), but if there is an active region it reverts to `kill-ring-save'. I have this in my personal configuration for ages, and it is always one of the first things I re-implement when using an Emacs without a custom init.el. -- Philip Kaludercic on peregrine
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 11:01:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.17147340038334 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Cc: rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.17147340038334 (code B ref 69097); Fri, 03 May 2024 11:01:02 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2024 11:00:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46382 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s2qe1-0002A2-S2 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 07:00:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54098) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1s2qdx-00029R-0g for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 07:00:01 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1s2qdU-0004gq-Ke; Fri, 03 May 2024 06:59:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=Gx6K8l5MXoGOVurtCOdDug37haKsyYQmZjJzRGOrdns=; b=gCDb1UrXs/gm fAr2eJqfsUxAho5nwkssQZHENHpB9g2qoKN06K29xZJ5k8u1oYZBFG+yAf3eS3PrJxBlEiQrmu0Zc cWR6xngm2BMhnfBQ29j7uVDP7ka2sN6XeFx9UzGeW2zcNHyh35VJNpiDAIOpE60iGJkJFxgzBk1dB 5mu9jQBjzGffy3EKRnWlYbUpfZVryiXvdFReEetRN5g2sjj9NS4egx0YcwHPeY/3EzP7tFo+UZUMJ gkIfZ/bUjrGcaWwHKEQOkYOVEoP2kGjsHNVwo5Z1oXOyYzDnfeNxZdBcMT1l2WVa+3i7EVjkV0cEA 9Ki+LQQK/m5wQqoIBXCB4A==; Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 13:59:00 +0300 Message-Id: <86v83vi2kr.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87o79n6uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Philip Kaludercic on Fri, 03 May 2024 10:48:13 +0000) References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmob73ds.fsf@HIDDEN> <861q6jji0i.fsf@HIDDEN> <87o79n6uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> > Cc: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> > Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 10:48:13 +0000 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > >> ping? I had a discussion with RMS off-list and he seemed to be > >> supportive of the change. > > > > That's a problem with off-list discussions: no one knows about them. > > I also realised this too late, if you want to I can resend the messages. I think that would be a good idea, at least for posterity. So please do. > > More to the point, can you explain why we need this, given the > > existence of kill-word? > > > > Also, this kills backward, something that is not evident, neither from > > the name of the command nor from the doc string (and the obscure > > reference to Unix doesn't help, IMO). > > > > Finally, having another command that kills the region doesn't seem > > justified, or is it? > > The motivation is sort of the same as with generalising `upcase-word' to > `upcase-dwim'. If there is no active region, it behaves like > `backward-kill-word' (which is what C-w does in a terminal as well), but > if there is an active region it reverts to `kill-ring-save'. If so, then (assuming we decide to accept this change), the name of the command should be something like kill-word-dwim, and the doc string should mention the two commands you refer to above. > I have this in my personal configuration for ages, and it is always > one of the first things I re-implement when using an Emacs without a > custom init.el. Any reason why you need this command and cannot settle for the two commands it replaces heuristically? Are you using Emacs with transient-mark-mode on or off?
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 11:06:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.17147343038606 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: philipk@HIDDEN Cc: rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.17147343038606 (code B ref 69097); Fri, 03 May 2024 11:06:01 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2024 11:05:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46387 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s2qit-0002Ek-6p for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 07:05:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42610) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1s2qir-0002EI-Js for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 07:05:02 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1s2qiP-000692-QM; Fri, 03 May 2024 07:04:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=rFyPH/SIFaJEXmtCpwz0Y1V1DsT0MYiqYk9cwxDH2rw=; b=Cm4P6Ng9ifvQ aLBZtW5V2dX05oUef7G0kd9bYGzSRTQYhrJGcTp7vf5UGTSZbrSIK+NnrLULkEgtM4qzc7UVDFGPG fwH2Q9ernD6zlHeHgFiVSj6Kbs+lg5IE4H9M4Ebk0meWvwCJwIlZUe/Rt+u/v921UreMk0xduqOIm vIu0c7bbWEKt/Opradf8fS4OpettXimMpNHIAMMKnoXrDIlAEgU8IztX4oQcB50i4+vdtI5hxuHDA nvIuqLW1TpNMad+pWQ4L8UHjrILaGycAwVVua6Jby4HGMG3S6cQ1342MsO/Hkd2eqk5FR2QORNNAJ lml3d4K/D4o+c2a/mi1Evg==; Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 14:04:17 +0300 Message-Id: <86seyzi2by.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <86v83vi2kr.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Fri, 03 May 2024 13:59:00 +0300) References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmob73ds.fsf@HIDDEN> <861q6jji0i.fsf@HIDDEN> <87o79n6uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <86v83vi2kr.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 13:59:00 +0300 > From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> > > > From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> > > Cc: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> > > Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 10:48:13 +0000 > > > > > More to the point, can you explain why we need this, given the > > > existence of kill-word? > > > > > > Also, this kills backward, something that is not evident, neither from > > > the name of the command nor from the doc string (and the obscure > > > reference to Unix doesn't help, IMO). > > > > > > Finally, having another command that kills the region doesn't seem > > > justified, or is it? > > > > The motivation is sort of the same as with generalising `upcase-word' to > > `upcase-dwim'. If there is no active region, it behaves like > > `backward-kill-word' (which is what C-w does in a terminal as well), but > > if there is an active region it reverts to `kill-ring-save'. > > If so, then (assuming we decide to accept this change), the name of > the command should be something like kill-word-dwim, and the doc > string should mention the two commands you refer to above. > > > I have this in my personal configuration for ages, and it is always > > one of the first things I re-implement when using an Emacs without a > > custom init.el. > > Any reason why you need this command and cannot settle for the two > commands it replaces heuristically? Are you using Emacs with > transient-mark-mode on or off? And one more question: currently C-w signals an error if there's no region. So another idea is to extend C-w to delete the word at point if there's no region (where "no region" means "no active region" if transient-mark-mode is ON, otherwise it means "no mark set").
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 16:16:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.171475295212474 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Cc: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.171475295212474 (code B ref 69097); Fri, 03 May 2024 16:16:01 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2024 16:15:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47076 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s2vZf-0003F3-Pl for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; 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Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1rdLrN-0004wj-5E; Thu, 22 Feb 2024 22:04:25 -0500 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87sf1obkw9.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Philip Kaludercic on Mon, 19 Feb 2024 14:15:18 +0000) References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1rbBlC-0008Nk-8q@HIDDEN> <87ttm7gi9i.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1rbuaC-0001Uh-JI@HIDDEN> <87sf1obkw9.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1rdLrN-0004wj-5E@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2024 03:04:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > My command boils down to using `use-region-p'. This makes usage > together with `transient-mark-mode' intuitive, because if you can see > the selection, you kill a region, otherwise a word is deleted. That seems natural. Have you tried putting this on M-d? It could be convenient but it could instead be disturbing and surprising. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 16:16:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.171475295512482 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Cc: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.171475295512482 (code B ref 69097); Fri, 03 May 2024 16:16:02 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2024 16:15:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47078 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s2vZi-0003FF-DG for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; 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Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1re4zh-0004Fi-5e; Sat, 24 Feb 2024 22:16:01 -0500 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <871q93rzv8.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Philip Kaludercic on Fri, 23 Feb 2024 14:58:51 +0000) References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1rbBlC-0008Nk-8q@HIDDEN> <87ttm7gi9i.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1rbuaC-0001Uh-JI@HIDDEN> <87sf1obkw9.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1rdLrN-0004wj-5E@HIDDEN> <871q93rzv8.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1re4zh-0004Fi-5e@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2024 03:16:01 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Have you tried putting this on M-d? It could be convenient but it > > could instead be disturbing and surprising. > I would expect it to be weird, as long as the proposed command uses > backward-kill-word, and not kill-word. I did not see in the email that it kills a word _backwards_. That being so, the natural binding for it would be M-DEL. Do people find this changed behavior for M-DEL natural? I am not presuming either yes or no. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 16:16:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.171475295612490 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Cc: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.171475295612490 (code B ref 69097); Fri, 03 May 2024 16:16:02 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2024 16:15:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47080 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s2vZj-0003FH-1U for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 12:15:55 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.142]:60395) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1s2vZb-0003EN-CX for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 12:15:51 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49515240101 for <69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 3 May 2024 18:15:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4VWG9d3wJwz9rxG for <69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 3 May 2024 18:15:17 +0200 (CEST) Resent-To: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Resent-Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 18:15:16 +0200 Resent-Message-ID: <87fruy7tyj.fsf@HIDDEN> Received: from proxy02.posteo.name ([127.0.0.1]) by dovecot15.posteo.name (Dovecot) with LMTP id bbDgDzIt0GWQigIAB3Nl4w for <philipk@HIDDEN>; Sat, 17 Feb 2024 04:53:09 +0100 Received: from proxy02.posteo.de ([127.0.0.1]) by proxy02.posteo.name (Dovecot) with LMTP id umkQGHos0GWqswEAGFAyLg ; 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Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1rbBlC-0008Nk-8q; Fri, 16 Feb 2024 22:53:06 -0500 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Philip Kaludercic on Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:55:39 +0000) References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1rbBlC-0008Nk-8q@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2024 03:53:06 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > This is another useful command I find myself re-implementing every time > I use an unmodified Emacs, that I think would provide some nice > convenience for people used to classical Unix keybindings. Do you bind this to a key? If so, which key is convenient? -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 16:16:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.171475295612497 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Cc: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.171475295612497 (code B ref 69097); Fri, 03 May 2024 16:16:03 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2024 16:15:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47082 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s2vZj-0003FP-RS for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; 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Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1re4zh-0004Fi-5e; Sat, 24 Feb 2024 22:16:01 -0500 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <871q93rzv8.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Philip Kaludercic on Fri, 23 Feb 2024 14:58:51 +0000) References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1rbBlC-0008Nk-8q@HIDDEN> <87ttm7gi9i.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1rbuaC-0001Uh-JI@HIDDEN> <87sf1obkw9.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1rdLrN-0004wj-5E@HIDDEN> <871q93rzv8.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1re4zh-0004Fi-5e@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2024 03:16:01 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Have you tried putting this on M-d? It could be convenient but it > > could instead be disturbing and surprising. > I would expect it to be weird, as long as the proposed command uses > backward-kill-word, and not kill-word. I did not see in the email that it kills a word _backwards_. That being so, the natural binding for it would be M-DEL. Do people find this changed behavior for M-DEL natural? I am not presuming either yes or no. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 16:16:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.171475295612504 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Cc: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.171475295612504 (code B ref 69097); Fri, 03 May 2024 16:16:03 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2024 16:15:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47084 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s2vZk-0003FW-5q for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; 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Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1rentL-0000u5-6y; Mon, 26 Feb 2024 22:12:27 -0500 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87frxgn73g.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Philip Kaludercic on Sun, 25 Feb 2024 10:58:27 +0000) References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1rbBlC-0008Nk-8q@HIDDEN> <87ttm7gi9i.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1rbuaC-0001Uh-JI@HIDDEN> <87sf1obkw9.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1rdLrN-0004wj-5E@HIDDEN> <871q93rzv8.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1re4zh-0004Fi-5e@HIDDEN> <87frxgn73g.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1rentL-0000u5-6y@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2024 03:12:27 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I don't think this command should be bound by default at all. Just like > by default M-u is bound to `upcase-word', but the user might decide to > rebind the key to the more powerful (or more confusing) DWIM command > `upcase-dwim', here too, I just want to propose offering an opt-in > alternative that the user can bind wherever they please. Making the > decision for them would be too invasive IMO. Maybe you're right -- but let's find out what users think of it. It may turn out that users will love having this command on M-DEL. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 16:16:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.171475295712511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Cc: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.171475295712511 (code B ref 69097); Fri, 03 May 2024 16:16:04 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2024 16:15:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47086 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s2vZk-0003Fd-Jd for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; 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d=UX1Mu6qlXc6Cwk244ve0WMyfqekIY5MLJuStOUvSOGuR531GuOLw4rwRdeiTmeN97eBhF65NLu98VBnyB9T+P7aOULJ+DgB0//3wj82ixaOJkm2PyojzRigHvetZHY3Si8IvrR94 Authentication-Results: posteo.de; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gnu.org header.i=@gnu.org header.b=KVfHu46E; dkim-atps=neutral X-Posteo-TLS-Received-Status: TLSv1.2 Received: from eggs.gnu.org (eggs.gnu.org [209.51.188.92]) by mx03.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4TgvxR4VTzz11nj for <philipk@HIDDEN>; Fri, 23 Feb 2024 04:04:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1rdLrN-0000j2-Fz for philipk@HIDDEN; Thu, 22 Feb 2024 22:04:25 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=xfvUDTCTcnGYSFXjjsGHaCID0rC7bs8g9BDU5qMEEHQ=; b=KVfHu46EeQd/ +Nfv0al4t3ZViphHt91s4DQnAP7oVn10oXcHmuGFxLftG2/BBY20q8pJ4hsRaWxKs9QdOmw5qaC+B 4GR4nZIxKy/BR+ojffg2O7oYJnJp2d6gkzvywTCwSiLs6g2ecUAMTovWh30QGtC0Q3KTtRacodayj fiYnW3HEIt10+mWAopbrEyys1PA6zUqwud/A01PNgYk7ctXQOj8P+UZ0lKILgCiAhIh+ZAe2/ESEY D6K2nwYBXE1E6WNUG4ch7ceuMWn7yhJ1MVehKZxMFLP8pktCFFeRTPYY2k+O37rbC3evxEZb3jCb1 NfdZC3lvw+yy21h9mdwziA==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1rdLrN-0004wj-5E; Thu, 22 Feb 2024 22:04:25 -0500 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87sf1obkw9.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Philip Kaludercic on Mon, 19 Feb 2024 14:15:18 +0000) References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1rbBlC-0008Nk-8q@HIDDEN> <87ttm7gi9i.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1rbuaC-0001Uh-JI@HIDDEN> <87sf1obkw9.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1rdLrN-0004wj-5E@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2024 03:04:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > My command boils down to using `use-region-p'. This makes usage > together with `transient-mark-mode' intuitive, because if you can see > the selection, you kill a region, otherwise a word is deleted. That seems natural. Have you tried putting this on M-d? It could be convenient but it could instead be disturbing and surprising. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 16:16:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.171475295712517 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Cc: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.171475295712517 (code B ref 69097); Fri, 03 May 2024 16:16:04 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2024 16:15:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47088 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s2vZk-0003Fk-To for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; 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Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1rbuaC-0001Uh-JI; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 22:44:44 -0500 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87ttm7gi9i.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Philip Kaludercic on Sat, 17 Feb 2024 16:36:25 +0000) References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1rbBlC-0008Nk-8q@HIDDEN> <87ttm7gi9i.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1rbuaC-0001Uh-JI@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2024 03:44:44 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] How does it decide whether to kill a region or a word? -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 16:21:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.171475325012766 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Cc: rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.171475325012766 (code B ref 69097); Fri, 03 May 2024 16:21:02 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2024 16:20:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47116 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s2veT-0003Jq-Ml for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 12:20:50 -0400 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:55617) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <philipk@HIDDEN>) id 1s2veS-0003Ji-0M for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 12:20:48 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A2999240027 for <69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 3 May 2024 18:20:19 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1714753219; bh=5zzrFFr0hqFJjSWPK1ZG+gy+sq7LWLn49D1949wbZuc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:OpenPGP:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type:From; b=U+o423d3tJLMlqOK/Ab9m9HWFOVLRaWbU5fU9A+3tdPmTojYPDCFMExeT+xNIewDH FkePdXACDD1nAEl87kmwyCJn5YW5GnEaEaZHZKDEq9r2AofHp5VgJuR4Hmrpm8YKhS Km+N50/NN49Qonsbf0FYG2fM12sBsLoewsJ1ef0DLYJaqkeurG+lanuGIT1yNV80E0 33lL0aU5bDKnzYQQhxYmhoe4Wr6Qiu1+PPq6dR9Ih1VP1AQLv/taLzF2jIqwpACIL8 zPCkhSr1VgAlpW4zAzfii19JdpgGhtQLVPnt68H2BT3mjkHWRDnftEiZWgc3vtSwQO MrEbfAopfJedg== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4VWGHR1447z9rxD; Fri, 3 May 2024 18:20:19 +0200 (CEST) From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <86v83vi2kr.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 03 May 2024 13:59:00 +0300") References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmob73ds.fsf@HIDDEN> <861q6jji0i.fsf@HIDDEN> <87o79n6uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <86v83vi2kr.fsf@HIDDEN> OpenPGP: id=7126E1DE2F0CE35C770BED01F2C3CC513DB89F66; url="https://keys.openpgp.org/vks/v1/by-fingerprint/7126E1DE2F0CE35C770BED01F2C3CC513DB89F66"; preference=signencrypt Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 16:20:18 +0000 Message-ID: <87jzka6f5p.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> >> Cc: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> >> Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 10:48:13 +0000 >> >> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> >> >> ping? I had a discussion with RMS off-list and he seemed to be >> >> supportive of the change. >> > >> > That's a problem with off-list discussions: no one knows about them. >> >> I also realised this too late, if you want to I can resend the messages. > > I think that would be a good idea, at least for posterity. So please > do. Done, let's see if my mail server allows it. >> > More to the point, can you explain why we need this, given the >> > existence of kill-word? >> > >> > Also, this kills backward, something that is not evident, neither from >> > the name of the command nor from the doc string (and the obscure >> > reference to Unix doesn't help, IMO). >> > >> > Finally, having another command that kills the region doesn't seem >> > justified, or is it? >> >> The motivation is sort of the same as with generalising `upcase-word' to >> `upcase-dwim'. If there is no active region, it behaves like >> `backward-kill-word' (which is what C-w does in a terminal as well), but >> if there is an active region it reverts to `kill-ring-save'. > > If so, then (assuming we decide to accept this change), the name of > the command should be something like kill-word-dwim, and the doc > string should mention the two commands you refer to above. I am not sure if the analogy is that perfect, but I certainly can mention `backward-kill-word' and `kill-ring-save'. >> I have this in my personal configuration for ages, and it is always >> one of the first things I re-implement when using an Emacs without a >> custom init.el. > > Any reason why you need this command and cannot settle for the two > commands it replaces heuristically? Are you using Emacs with > transient-mark-mode on or off? With transient-mark-mode on. I have a mixed habit of using C-w in terminals and in Emacs, and which one I want to use correlates pretty well with there being an active region. -- Philip Kaludercic on peregrine
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 17:34:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.171475759218251 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Cc: rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.171475759218251 (code B ref 69097); Fri, 03 May 2024 17:34:01 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2024 17:33:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47855 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s2wmW-0004kJ-5q for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 13:33:12 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:45877) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <philipk@HIDDEN>) id 1s2wmQ-0004jt-Oa for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 13:33:10 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52B0A240103 for <69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 3 May 2024 19:32:37 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1714757557; bh=DLJKRfxBSIU6M3VrMjgKV+CZyIZFNZDUSSFJA22VWGs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:OpenPGP:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type:From; b=VWaFDYWiGY0eFN0OIInIxvIKfZ4HunsCzFKOH+sOehjDX97sWylqeFwB9hoCTolh2 6vvspN+gA2zUcsU4VokpDAusdsHAccs3c5ynYScoNRS5zIfG189vtwvk92mgxnRtIZ m5p0o6G1qq5LOuN3cmJic5C5IiBJ4fRQZjiagvHO9/ZTbz5sEWS5H18t7+d2Xcp+lw tTkWs56/Zhwg6ydF/mA1Zk/4seeM4uFUasI90qPJwJXu/9IVN4HTeV4cSsace1qqL6 qgQ+KGHwLeDOdYp1qFYFJRhG4mDYFR6tpmjr52ZuvBlJwb19NN68TRZpryIeJHsVQU fBAColWO4NqSQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4VWHtr56hwz9rxL; Fri, 3 May 2024 19:32:36 +0200 (CEST) From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <86seyzi2by.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 03 May 2024 14:04:17 +0300") References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmob73ds.fsf@HIDDEN> <861q6jji0i.fsf@HIDDEN> <87o79n6uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <86v83vi2kr.fsf@HIDDEN> <86seyzi2by.fsf@HIDDEN> OpenPGP: id=7126E1DE2F0CE35C770BED01F2C3CC513DB89F66; url="https://keys.openpgp.org/vks/v1/by-fingerprint/7126E1DE2F0CE35C770BED01F2C3CC513DB89F66"; preference=signencrypt Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 17:32:35 +0000 Message-ID: <87cyq26bt8.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> Cc: rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 13:59:00 +0300 >> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> >> >> > From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> >> > Cc: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> >> > Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 10:48:13 +0000 >> > >> > > More to the point, can you explain why we need this, given the >> > > existence of kill-word? >> > > >> > > Also, this kills backward, something that is not evident, neither from >> > > the name of the command nor from the doc string (and the obscure >> > > reference to Unix doesn't help, IMO). >> > > >> > > Finally, having another command that kills the region doesn't seem >> > > justified, or is it? >> > >> > The motivation is sort of the same as with generalising `upcase-word' to >> > `upcase-dwim'. If there is no active region, it behaves like >> > `backward-kill-word' (which is what C-w does in a terminal as well), but >> > if there is an active region it reverts to `kill-ring-save'. >> >> If so, then (assuming we decide to accept this change), the name of >> the command should be something like kill-word-dwim, and the doc >> string should mention the two commands you refer to above. >> >> > I have this in my personal configuration for ages, and it is always >> > one of the first things I re-implement when using an Emacs without a >> > custom init.el. >> >> Any reason why you need this command and cannot settle for the two >> commands it replaces heuristically? Are you using Emacs with >> transient-mark-mode on or off? > > And one more question: currently C-w signals an error if there's no > region. So another idea is to extend C-w to delete the word at point > if there's no region (where "no region" means "no active region" if > transient-mark-mode is ON, otherwise it means "no mark set"). That is basically what my command does (with the difference that I don't just check if (mark) is non-nil but also if (use-region-p) is non-nil), just not part of kill-region. I don't know if this is too invasive, if users are used to this error being signalled. Perhaps it can be protected by a user option? -- Philip Kaludercic on peregrine
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 18:03:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.171475933820586 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Cc: rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.171475933820586 (code B ref 69097); Fri, 03 May 2024 18:03:01 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2024 18:02:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47985 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s2xEg-0005Ly-9T for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 14:02:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59000) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1s2xEd-0005Lr-Er for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 14:02:16 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1s2xEB-0006U8-GA; Fri, 03 May 2024 14:01:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=gDRMQjcOWX4vV8QndGwGwUM+Fue7RsQ9WnJ8xtxNc/4=; b=FOhKGzjv6HuF kUxrePYzSR7QqSIA1FxnRYpzNO8Uq8BET6XvbMPFDOveoilUR5cayK/pDnF9okbWMg90gjZOae7sr tXPIN5EDvFzmSqZuzQtlt1gt/tTaGWFwhFnNDUpWuB6rqrdonf2UWk/8jPRuzTIyu/yc4tPNkIbnr 1uev9/hcBASTCQepAFA5SI0/SFkDc/4ErJtNqZXoIj+hQ1kDjKuUFW4zYLjVgMKstSK985S5cSOAy BMpHo5A+L80/PcLSjGdreUfN0Jm6YUTVvAS1K1cHqzmJFvFXwSvBBWidWFC3yZXGiPmrYmAvr5RAn if4mAdBP6K7nXI+BgachoA==; Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 21:01:38 +0300 Message-Id: <864jbeixkt.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87cyq26bt8.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Philip Kaludercic on Fri, 03 May 2024 17:32:35 +0000) References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmob73ds.fsf@HIDDEN> <861q6jji0i.fsf@HIDDEN> <87o79n6uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <86v83vi2kr.fsf@HIDDEN> <86seyzi2by.fsf@HIDDEN> <87cyq26bt8.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> > Cc: rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 17:32:35 +0000 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > >> Cc: rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > >> Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 13:59:00 +0300 > >> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> > >> > >> > From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> > >> > Cc: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> > >> > Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 10:48:13 +0000 > >> > > >> > > More to the point, can you explain why we need this, given the > >> > > existence of kill-word? > >> > > > >> > > Also, this kills backward, something that is not evident, neither from > >> > > the name of the command nor from the doc string (and the obscure > >> > > reference to Unix doesn't help, IMO). > >> > > > >> > > Finally, having another command that kills the region doesn't seem > >> > > justified, or is it? > >> > > >> > The motivation is sort of the same as with generalising `upcase-word' to > >> > `upcase-dwim'. If there is no active region, it behaves like > >> > `backward-kill-word' (which is what C-w does in a terminal as well), but > >> > if there is an active region it reverts to `kill-ring-save'. > >> > >> If so, then (assuming we decide to accept this change), the name of > >> the command should be something like kill-word-dwim, and the doc > >> string should mention the two commands you refer to above. > >> > >> > I have this in my personal configuration for ages, and it is always > >> > one of the first things I re-implement when using an Emacs without a > >> > custom init.el. > >> > >> Any reason why you need this command and cannot settle for the two > >> commands it replaces heuristically? Are you using Emacs with > >> transient-mark-mode on or off? > > > > And one more question: currently C-w signals an error if there's no > > region. So another idea is to extend C-w to delete the word at point > > if there's no region (where "no region" means "no active region" if > > transient-mark-mode is ON, otherwise it means "no mark set"). > > That is basically what my command does (with the difference that I don't > just check if (mark) is non-nil but also if (use-region-p) is non-nil), > just not part of kill-region. I don't know if this is too invasive, if > users are used to this error being signalled. Perhaps it can be > protected by a user option? I don't think anyone wants the error, so doing something useful in that case should be a no-brainer.
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 19:43:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.171476534125404 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Cc: rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.171476534125404 (code B ref 69097); Fri, 03 May 2024 19:43:02 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2024 19:42:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48396 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s2ynV-0006bg-3v for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 15:42:21 -0400 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:45107) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <philipk@HIDDEN>) id 1s2ynP-0006bY-Af for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 15:42:19 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A79524002A for <69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 3 May 2024 21:41:46 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1714765307; bh=bu8itpycT4mOOuFSNyB5iaFKdhKjWMyUSXTBYTlYR4E=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:OpenPGP:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type:From; b=Jy0rIIi8AlTBatXsN1/f7tF54ZGZ17gUYa2KQxhFNH/MVSEebCuoHPkDirwc3Vw1z HrJeij8ki9/Wv0PMp6OYGAn2YinZ+aeoTWAsAnbkWq5Q1U8HypsbWfQfkDN/K2C8QQ YSv6t2g1SWx5UXeE4ON9V69c5WaCH1YmMrJKrtSa/OUiOAVL84P+zU0ErZBVBo8htf GDLXTciNAUvmq/OVC27/E+0ECrFjtw6EWC3XU6NCaZfk03sn4+M3vjLnwmozOBR6f0 6NK8c7G1lfDzgWe3Zq4FYC9iFIDtDnxsYmOjPiMv9eJAaVxuSNLMY2Asuqdh7ZyAGE veJDbOWTE0ovQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4VWLls5Zvpz6tyK; Fri, 3 May 2024 21:41:45 +0200 (CEST) From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <864jbeixkt.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 03 May 2024 21:01:38 +0300") References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmob73ds.fsf@HIDDEN> <861q6jji0i.fsf@HIDDEN> <87o79n6uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <86v83vi2kr.fsf@HIDDEN> <86seyzi2by.fsf@HIDDEN> <87cyq26bt8.fsf@HIDDEN> <864jbeixkt.fsf@HIDDEN> OpenPGP: id=7126E1DE2F0CE35C770BED01F2C3CC513DB89F66; url="https://keys.openpgp.org/vks/v1/by-fingerprint/7126E1DE2F0CE35C770BED01F2C3CC513DB89F66"; preference=signencrypt Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 19:41:43 +0000 Message-ID: <874jbe65u0.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> >> Cc: rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 17:32:35 +0000 >> >> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> >> >> Cc: rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> >> Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 13:59:00 +0300 >> >> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> >> >> >> >> > From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> >> >> > Cc: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> >> >> > Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 10:48:13 +0000 >> >> > >> >> > > More to the point, can you explain why we need this, given the >> >> > > existence of kill-word? >> >> > > >> >> > > Also, this kills backward, something that is not evident, neither from >> >> > > the name of the command nor from the doc string (and the obscure >> >> > > reference to Unix doesn't help, IMO). >> >> > > >> >> > > Finally, having another command that kills the region doesn't seem >> >> > > justified, or is it? >> >> > >> >> > The motivation is sort of the same as with generalising `upcase-word' to >> >> > `upcase-dwim'. If there is no active region, it behaves like >> >> > `backward-kill-word' (which is what C-w does in a terminal as well), but >> >> > if there is an active region it reverts to `kill-ring-save'. >> >> >> >> If so, then (assuming we decide to accept this change), the name of >> >> the command should be something like kill-word-dwim, and the doc >> >> string should mention the two commands you refer to above. >> >> >> >> > I have this in my personal configuration for ages, and it is always >> >> > one of the first things I re-implement when using an Emacs without a >> >> > custom init.el. >> >> >> >> Any reason why you need this command and cannot settle for the two >> >> commands it replaces heuristically? Are you using Emacs with >> >> transient-mark-mode on or off? >> > >> > And one more question: currently C-w signals an error if there's no >> > region. So another idea is to extend C-w to delete the word at point >> > if there's no region (where "no region" means "no active region" if >> > transient-mark-mode is ON, otherwise it means "no mark set"). >> >> That is basically what my command does (with the difference that I don't >> just check if (mark) is non-nil but also if (use-region-p) is non-nil), >> just not part of kill-region. I don't know if this is too invasive, if >> users are used to this error being signalled. Perhaps it can be >> protected by a user option? > > I don't think anyone wants the error, so doing something useful in > that case should be a no-brainer. How does this look like: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-patch Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0001-Allow-kill-region-to-delete-the-last-word.patch From c64fa2065e88c4e4848bf8a15161c82ae6d1c2bd Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 3 May 2024 21:38:51 +0200 Subject: [PATCH] Allow 'kill-region' to delete the last word * lisp/simple.el (kill-word-if-no-region): Add new user option to allow 'kill-region' to kill the last word if no region is active. The intention is to mirror the conventional C-w binding found in many Unix shells. (kill-region): Respect 'kill-word-if-no-region'. * etc/NEWS: Mention the change. (Bug#69097) --- etc/NEWS | 6 ++++++ lisp/simple.el | 43 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++------------- 2 files changed, 36 insertions(+), 13 deletions(-) diff --git a/etc/NEWS b/etc/NEWS index d4177d759f3..a0f2472ab67 100644 --- a/etc/NEWS +++ b/etc/NEWS @@ -416,6 +416,12 @@ When visiting a script that invokes 'env -S INTERPRETER ARGS...' in its shebang line, Emacs will now skip over 'env -S' and deduce the major mode based on the interpreter after 'env -S'. +--- +*** New user option 'kill-word-if-no-region'. +This option will modify the fall-back behaviour of 'kill-region' if no +region is active, and will kill the last word instead of raising an +error. + ** Emacs Server and Client --- diff --git a/lisp/simple.el b/lisp/simple.el index a459f6ecfd2..7fade562909 100644 --- a/lisp/simple.el +++ b/lisp/simple.el @@ -5790,6 +5790,11 @@ kill-read-only-ok :type 'boolean :group 'killing) +(defcustom kill-word-if-no-region nil + "Non-nil means that `kill-region' without a region will kill the last word." + :type 'boolean + :group 'killing) + (defun kill-region (beg end &optional region) "Kill (\"cut\") text between point and mark. This deletes the text from the buffer and saves it in the kill ring. @@ -5812,25 +5817,36 @@ kill-region the text, but put the text in the kill ring anyway. This means that you can use the killing commands to copy text from a read-only buffer. -Lisp programs should use this function for killing text. - (To delete text, use `delete-region'.) -Supply two arguments, character positions BEG and END indicating the - stretch of text to be killed. If the optional argument REGION is - non-nil, the function ignores BEG and END, and kills the current - region instead. Interactively, REGION is always non-nil, and so - this command always kills the current region." +Lisp programs should use this function for killing text. (To delete +text, use `delete-region'.) Supply two arguments, character positions +BEG and END indicating the stretch of text to be killed. If the +optional argument REGION is non-nil, the function ignores BEG and END, +and kills the current region instead. If REGION has the special value +`kill-word', then it will kill the previous word, as with +`backward-kill-word'. Interactively, REGION is always non-nil, and so +this command always kills the current region." ;; Pass mark first, then point, because the order matters when ;; calling `kill-append'. (interactive (progn (let ((beg (mark)) (end (point))) - (unless (and beg end) - (user-error "The mark is not set now, so there is no region")) - (list beg end 'region)))) + (cond + ((and beg end (use-region-p)) + (list beg end 'region)) + (kill-word-if-no-region + (list beg end 'kill-word)) + ((user-error "The mark is not set now, so there is no region")))))) + (condition-case nil - (let ((string (if region - (funcall region-extract-function 'delete) - (filter-buffer-substring beg end 'delete)))) + (let ((string (cond + ((eq region 'kill-word) + (let ((end (point))) + (save-excursion + (forward-word -1) + (filter-buffer-substring (point) end 'delete)))) + (region + (funcall region-extract-function 'delete)) + ((filter-buffer-substring beg end 'delete))))) (when string ;STRING is nil if BEG = END ;; Add that string to the kill ring, one way or another. (if (eq last-command 'kill-region) @@ -5857,6 +5873,7 @@ kill-region ;; If the buffer isn't read-only, the text is. (signal 'text-read-only (list (current-buffer))))))) + ;; copy-region-as-kill no longer sets this-command, because it's confusing ;; to get two copies of the text when the user accidentally types M-w and ;; then corrects it with the intended C-w. -- 2.44.0 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain -- Philip Kaludercic on peregrine --=-=-=--
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sat, 04 May 2024 06:22:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.171480366324138 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Cc: rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.171480366324138 (code B ref 69097); Sat, 04 May 2024 06:22:01 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 May 2024 06:21:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51484 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s38la-0006HG-HS for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 04 May 2024 02:21:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50992) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1s38lY-0006Gj-6W for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 04 May 2024 02:21:00 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1s38l5-0002OT-M3; Sat, 04 May 2024 02:20:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=Lx2Qj5kkuovbnBVR+I3lVt85HV474J/R3Ky3YQZ9aPQ=; b=l9HG77M77Mue QdW04KZDh7RkNPgAMRWIsz+t/5HGp/M5qmGnI0hcA9Ui97qzFRKOVq6u/cfuS8+Ckkp6bs18bMdX8 xU9xGwby0wZNheHpasOIkWYkNXNXleF0GnKReAvK68i+5Jf2qQKKzG8cDQkOJNqEsh/XSdLX717SJ o5Y0INsplgq1VqEER+LB2MYL7SEOaWPraoyBo7pJkzwL9r/XDbfyMDHXIN0QAWBo07KTqIz581mfr eOek6Fnnd0l5WOPJjnVOfEeRTjhYx/xI7sp2CxS7zlDhy6LwvURWgSfhIHJs/B0r0whhvG4HCmoQY c5OBUrcT4Qdyk7Yc+5b43Q==; Date: Sat, 04 May 2024 09:20:13 +0300 Message-Id: <861q6ihzdu.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <874jbe65u0.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Philip Kaludercic on Fri, 03 May 2024 19:41:43 +0000) References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmob73ds.fsf@HIDDEN> <861q6jji0i.fsf@HIDDEN> <87o79n6uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <86v83vi2kr.fsf@HIDDEN> <86seyzi2by.fsf@HIDDEN> <87cyq26bt8.fsf@HIDDEN> <864jbeixkt.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jbe65u0.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> > Cc: rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 19:41:43 +0000 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > > I don't think anyone wants the error, so doing something useful in > > that case should be a no-brainer. > > How does this look like: Looks good, but it needs some polish, I think: > +--- > +*** New user option 'kill-word-if-no-region'. > +This option will modify the fall-back behaviour of 'kill-region' if no > +region is active, and will kill the last word instead of raising an > +error. This should be modified according to comments below, and also should say what is the default of this option. > +(defcustom kill-word-if-no-region nil > + "Non-nil means that `kill-region' without a region will kill the last word." > + :type 'boolean > + :group 'killing) This lacks the :version tag. > +Lisp programs should use this function for killing text. (To delete > +text, use `delete-region'.) Supply two arguments, character positions > +BEG and END indicating the stretch of text to be killed. If the > +optional argument REGION is non-nil, the function ignores BEG and END, > +and kills the current region instead. If REGION has the special value > +`kill-word', then it will kill the previous word, as with > +`backward-kill-word'. Instead of "the previous word", I would say "word characters before point", since we don't kill the entire word if point is inside a word. > Interactively, REGION is always non-nil, and so > +this command always kills the current region." This is not accurate, is it? If you invoke C-w immediately after starting "emacs -Q", C-w currently signals an error. Also, the new user option should be mentioned here with its effect on what happens in that case. > + (cond > + ((and beg end (use-region-p)) > + (list beg end 'region)) > + (kill-word-if-no-region > + (list beg end 'kill-word)) > + ((user-error "The mark is not set now, so there is no region")))))) > + If transient-mark-mode is OFF and kill-word-if-no-region is non-nil, this will always kill the previous word, right? I think this is not what we want, so I think the above should work specially if transient-mark-mode is turned OFF. Finally, this needs the suitable changes in the manuals. Thanks.
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 07:02:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.17148924976993 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.17148924976993 (code B ref 69097); Sun, 05 May 2024 07:02:02 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2024 07:01:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58093 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s3VsO-0001oj-M3 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2024 03:01:36 -0400 Received: from relay8-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:dc4:8::228]:37165) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <juri@HIDDEN>) id 1s3VsM-0001oA-00 for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2024 03:01:34 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8247C1BF204; Sun, 5 May 2024 07:01:01 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <874jbe65u0.fsf@HIDDEN> (Philip Kaludercic's message of "Fri, 03 May 2024 19:41:43 +0000") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmob73ds.fsf@HIDDEN> <861q6jji0i.fsf@HIDDEN> <87o79n6uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <86v83vi2kr.fsf@HIDDEN> <86seyzi2by.fsf@HIDDEN> <87cyq26bt8.fsf@HIDDEN> <864jbeixkt.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jbe65u0.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 09:53:19 +0300 Message-ID: <8634qwkbtc.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > +(defcustom kill-word-if-no-region nil > + "Non-nil means that `kill-region' without a region will kill the last word." > + :type 'boolean > + :group 'killing) What a strange thing. `kill-region' is not related to word commands in no way. Why not kill a sentence? Why not kill a line? Why just word? All existing commands handle an active region. But there is no commands that do in the opposite direction where a general command handles one random specific case. This is because the region is a more general concept.
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 09:06:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.171489994411010 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> Cc: philipk@HIDDEN, rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.171489994411010 (code B ref 69097); Sun, 05 May 2024 09:06:01 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2024 09:05:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58568 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s3XoW-0002rW-0O for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2024 05:05:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57564) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1s3XoS-0002rJ-52 for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2024 05:05:41 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1s3Xny-0005Aq-TN; Sun, 05 May 2024 05:05:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=onl3A4HmwtR5kwk7lNPHeFVAN6yMGJlahZEANalABzo=; b=pm/MoXLDTCaa GBMkRgJHEz/+6ZRwNA2LkjBwVdih4JikhP56QdVreoBjD5lQJmRReX4lOo6ekzR+TxkTw8e8sIIme 29Q5mtzRrzBsxVMiY1LM8draUZg+vw9UQV71SO94qnglX3PYWO/dgEaZ8hrhV/ZDhN9M16/0P0MN3 T4k8uFfrR/SJcCs1LSsMHvCEIUzefnb39+3aIlw9r/4CLnXUrwhA+ESW31QoKlRIZvAgbScCi57NO S8cu1HxnD02JE4trIxITYixrvcNbMcNp6DIqUpSoGpEjdOajnyfXs8WMdJye1adX64QgI3LKT3OtZ PXWJudUm3Iz5QGq3CJt5bQ==; Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 12:04:49 +0300 Message-Id: <86h6fceij2.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <8634qwkbtc.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Juri Linkov on Sun, 05 May 2024 09:53:19 +0300) References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmob73ds.fsf@HIDDEN> <861q6jji0i.fsf@HIDDEN> <87o79n6uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <86v83vi2kr.fsf@HIDDEN> <86seyzi2by.fsf@HIDDEN> <87cyq26bt8.fsf@HIDDEN> <864jbeixkt.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jbe65u0.fsf@HIDDEN> <8634qwkbtc.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 09:53:19 +0300 > > > +(defcustom kill-word-if-no-region nil > > + "Non-nil means that `kill-region' without a region will kill the last word." > > + :type 'boolean > > + :group 'killing) > > What a strange thing. `kill-region' is not related to word commands > in no way. Why not kill a sentence? Why not kill a line? Why just word? > All existing commands handle an active region. But there is no commands > that do in the opposite direction where a general command handles > one random specific case. This is because the region is a more > general concept. https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=69097#14 is supposed to provide the rationale (consistency with what C-w does in a terminal, which I presume means in Bash or similar programs which use Readline?).
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 16:45:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.17149274936082 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Cc: philipk@HIDDEN, rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.17149274936082 (code B ref 69097); Sun, 05 May 2024 16:45:03 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2024 16:44:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60615 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s3eyr-0001a2-BW for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2024 12:44:53 -0400 Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.194]:47193) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <juri@HIDDEN>) id 1s3eyo-0001Zl-Te for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2024 12:44:51 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5A3B240002; Sun, 5 May 2024 16:44:19 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <86h6fceij2.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 05 May 2024 12:04:49 +0300") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmob73ds.fsf@HIDDEN> <861q6jji0i.fsf@HIDDEN> <87o79n6uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <86v83vi2kr.fsf@HIDDEN> <86seyzi2by.fsf@HIDDEN> <87cyq26bt8.fsf@HIDDEN> <864jbeixkt.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jbe65u0.fsf@HIDDEN> <8634qwkbtc.fsf@HIDDEN> <86h6fceij2.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 19:29:18 +0300 Message-ID: <86zft4jl5d.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> > +(defcustom kill-word-if-no-region nil >> > + "Non-nil means that `kill-region' without a region will kill the last word." >> > + :type 'boolean >> > + :group 'killing) >> >> What a strange thing. `kill-region' is not related to word commands >> in no way. Why not kill a sentence? Why not kill a line? Why just word? >> All existing commands handle an active region. But there is no commands >> that do in the opposite direction where a general command handles >> one random specific case. This is because the region is a more >> general concept. > > https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=69097#14 is supposed to > provide the rationale (consistency with what C-w does in a terminal, > which I presume means in Bash or similar programs which use > Readline?). So this is for Readline compatibility: unix-word-rubout (C-w) Kill the word behind point, using white space as a word boundary. The killed text is saved on the kill-ring. Then I have no opinion, since 'backward-kill-word' (C-<backspace>, M-DEL). already does this just fine.
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 16:49:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.17149276826301 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, "rms@HIDDEN" <rms@HIDDEN>, "69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.17149276826301 (code B ref 69097); Sun, 05 May 2024 16:49:01 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2024 16:48:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60645 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s3f1u-0001dP-8d for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; 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Why not kill a sentence? Why not kill a line? Why just > word? > > All existing commands handle an active region. But there is no commands > that do in the opposite direction where a general command handles > one random specific case. This is because the region is a more > general concept. +1. Finally some sense in this thread. If there's no mark in a buffer when you use C-w the logical behavior is to raise an error telling you exactly that. Emacs was wise to do this. No mark means no region, which means no region to kill. (And how often does anyone see this error when using C-w?) ___ Just as bad as giving C-w this unhelpful behavior was redefining `kill-region' to give it the new behavior, instead of binding C-w to a new command. ___ Having no mark is different from having an empty region (whether or not transient-mark-mode is on). An empty region is a bona fide region. Killing an empty region works; as does yanking it. An empty string on the kill ring affects yanking just as one would expect. Code can depend on it.
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 16:56:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.17149281326531 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.17149281326531 (code B ref 69097); Sun, 05 May 2024 16:56:02 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2024 16:55:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60675 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s3f9A-0001hH-CG for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2024 12:55:32 -0400 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:36343) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <philipk@HIDDEN>) id 1s3f97-0001h6-G9 for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2024 12:55:31 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED665240028 for <69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 5 May 2024 18:54:59 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1714928100; bh=WHERTphYjlEArYeneMguS/un908hl6HYC+UfVuUwDtg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type: From; b=cMPVTv5GJwQJpQLg+Y7+dGKttr24jtIFczyrk+lCTmVI/gxz05BXWE5nxhmbvXVnV F55QEnX1GWsUm8BPrUfPJP/7iGzML/vi9YuT8YadGnRFT+drXTDiiEw9zIIA/binkn 3xLOkZKb8R9+qgHMXNWYAqIouDuz6DvYs5gMjCEZFwGlh3DYO197e35KH01yYLW5mk uFkBMst+6HByQkZJt0rAiFQwt3cDeNNxnO3jLaFhcv6egWBMxjQGH0h4NmemDarkVD zQv4z/BUru4+Bwm5rcK39R43qEoRnSwh7hJYNXkwokrN3DwYlncqQBs/N/CSvOH5cg jWw5DNe3Pygpg== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4VXVyW2JK1z6tn4; Sun, 5 May 2024 18:54:59 +0200 (CEST) From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <86zft4jl5d.fsf@HIDDEN> (Juri Linkov's message of "Sun, 05 May 2024 19:29:18 +0300") References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmob73ds.fsf@HIDDEN> <861q6jji0i.fsf@HIDDEN> <87o79n6uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <86v83vi2kr.fsf@HIDDEN> <86seyzi2by.fsf@HIDDEN> <87cyq26bt8.fsf@HIDDEN> <864jbeixkt.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jbe65u0.fsf@HIDDEN> <8634qwkbtc.fsf@HIDDEN> <86h6fceij2.fsf@HIDDEN> <86zft4jl5d.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Hashcash: 1:20:240505:69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org::cp/dl8RTMrzWDzIV:Dlg X-Hashcash: 1:20:240505:rms@HIDDEN::Ie0KNhuPCvJVJl5R:02W1 X-Hashcash: 1:20:240505:eliz@HIDDEN::FEj13/wZLuBAa9zn:16iS X-Hashcash: 1:20:240505:juri@HIDDEN::eD7SjZYdakOxloWc:2acw Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 16:54:57 +0000 Message-ID: <87plu05hcu.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> writes: >>> > +(defcustom kill-word-if-no-region nil >>> > + "Non-nil means that `kill-region' without a region will kill the last word." >>> > + :type 'boolean >>> > + :group 'killing) >>> >>> What a strange thing. `kill-region' is not related to word commands >>> in no way. Why not kill a sentence? Why not kill a line? Why just word? >>> All existing commands handle an active region. But there is no commands >>> that do in the opposite direction where a general command handles >>> one random specific case. This is because the region is a more >>> general concept. >> >> https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=69097#14 is supposed to >> provide the rationale (consistency with what C-w does in a terminal, >> which I presume means in Bash or similar programs which use >> Readline?). > > So this is for Readline compatibility: > > unix-word-rubout (C-w) > Kill the word behind point, using white space as a word boundary. > The killed text is saved on the kill-ring. > > Then I have no opinion, since 'backward-kill-word' (C-<backspace>, M-DEL). > already does this just fine. Right, the initial command just merges `backward-kill-word' and `kill-region' into one. -- Philip Kaludercic on icterid
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 17:01:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.17149284576876 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.17149284576876 (code B ref 69097); Sun, 05 May 2024 17:01:01 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2024 17:00:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60708 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s3fEL-0001mq-3z for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2024 13:00:56 -0400 Received: from relay9-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:dc4:8::229]:43643) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <juri@HIDDEN>) id 1s3fEF-0001mk-2F for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2024 13:00:51 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5B5B5FF806; Sun, 5 May 2024 17:00:15 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87plu05hcu.fsf@HIDDEN> (Philip Kaludercic's message of "Sun, 05 May 2024 16:54:57 +0000") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmob73ds.fsf@HIDDEN> <861q6jji0i.fsf@HIDDEN> <87o79n6uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <86v83vi2kr.fsf@HIDDEN> <86seyzi2by.fsf@HIDDEN> <87cyq26bt8.fsf@HIDDEN> <864jbeixkt.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jbe65u0.fsf@HIDDEN> <8634qwkbtc.fsf@HIDDEN> <86h6fceij2.fsf@HIDDEN> <86zft4jl5d.fsf@HIDDEN> <87plu05hcu.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 19:59:46 +0300 Message-ID: <86jzk8i48t.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >>>> > +(defcustom kill-word-if-no-region nil >>>> > + "Non-nil means that `kill-region' without a region will kill the last word." >>>> > + :type 'boolean >>>> > + :group 'killing) >>>> >>>> What a strange thing. `kill-region' is not related to word commands >>>> in no way. Why not kill a sentence? Why not kill a line? Why just word? >>>> All existing commands handle an active region. But there is no commands >>>> that do in the opposite direction where a general command handles >>>> one random specific case. This is because the region is a more >>>> general concept. >>> >>> https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=69097#14 is supposed to >>> provide the rationale (consistency with what C-w does in a terminal, >>> which I presume means in Bash or similar programs which use >>> Readline?). >> >> So this is for Readline compatibility: >> >> unix-word-rubout (C-w) >> Kill the word behind point, using white space as a word boundary. >> The killed text is saved on the kill-ring. >> >> Then I have no opinion, since 'backward-kill-word' (C-<backspace>, M-DEL). >> already does this just fine. > > Right, the initial command just merges `backward-kill-word' and > `kill-region' into one. There are two ways to merge: 1. `backward-kill-word' into `kill-region' 2. `kill-region' into `backward-kill-word' I don't know why prefer one over another.
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 17:06:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.17149287457088 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN>, Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, "rms@HIDDEN" <rms@HIDDEN>, "69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.17149287457088 (code B ref 69097); Sun, 05 May 2024 17:06:02 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2024 17:05:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60738 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s3fJ2-0001qG-TV for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; 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And the open question then should be whether to bind that new command to C-w _by default_. (My vote: no.) If you like, just suggest to users, somewhere, to start using that binding. See if its use becomes popular, THEN revisit the question here of giving it `kill-region's longstanding default binding. Just one opinion.
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 17:10:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.17149289507203 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, "rms@HIDDEN" <rms@HIDDEN>, "69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.17149289507203 (code B ref 69097); Sun, 05 May 2024 17:10:02 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2024 17:09:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60755 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s3fML-0001s7-Iu for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; 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Just please make the merge a _new_ command, and don't give it the longstanding key for either `kill-region' or `backward-kill-word'. Don't give it any key binding by default. That's the Emacs way, IMO. If people tend to bind it to some normally-taken key, such as `C-w' or `M-DEL' THEN raise the question of whether Emacs should change that binding by default.
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 17:15:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.17149292817408 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Cc: philipk@HIDDEN, rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri@HIDDEN Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.17149292817408 (code B ref 69097); Sun, 05 May 2024 17:15:01 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2024 17:14:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60791 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s3fRh-0001vQ-H0 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2024 13:14:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59596) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1s3fRf-0001vD-Ag for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2024 13:14:39 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1s3fRB-0005ac-Ce; Sun, 05 May 2024 13:14:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=b+vn3LjeyJvszS45R7ozAVoiH0RSqWBSbSqppGr6IPc=; b=LDhll9+LPATG dGLgPOnZDMFAfr8yEXwIgquL2s9/DQlFthwjA7LicLYuebP8FREnzfiO+1j23o2UPI+lnXH5dTLgn qLiHssFPDIbaS6vaHx0I8qCUPsnkbAVnC4pY/dMotDfPkP+pWiX8WOXFwhL6Qsv0ampyqxzHMSXuV DOFamextQ740sKcTRQk4rWC4N48n0cv1ENWXPTtfQSNNFMnBSC7njL6rJSMlwW/9gygOqrJvWz4CY iCu4YVNehZDzQwJ2Ns6Qn3jOa9VHNXV57c88/azIrXMxPdHA7kuhJCgMP/KxWRt5vC6AuF/UwoL+B bbMjDUWUAPjup+g+WbBISA==; Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 20:13:39 +0300 Message-Id: <86h6fcchbw.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR10MB5488259CEF64D0EFE6FE1E76F31D2@HIDDEN> (message from Drew Adams on Sun, 5 May 2024 17:05:12 +0000) References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmob73ds.fsf@HIDDEN> <861q6jji0i.fsf@HIDDEN> <87o79n6uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <86v83vi2kr.fsf@HIDDEN> <86seyzi2by.fsf@HIDDEN> <87cyq26bt8.fsf@HIDDEN> <864jbeixkt.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jbe65u0.fsf@HIDDEN> <8634qwkbtc.fsf@HIDDEN> <86h6fceij2.fsf@HIDDEN> <86zft4jl5d.fsf@HIDDEN> <87plu05hcu.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB5488259CEF64D0EFE6FE1E76F31D2@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> > CC: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, "rms@HIDDEN" <rms@HIDDEN>, > "69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Sun, 5 May 2024 17:05:12 +0000 > > > Right, the initial command just merges `backward-kill-word' and > > `kill-region' into one. > > `kill-region-or-backward-word', then. And the > open question then should be whether to bind that > new command to C-w _by default_. (My vote: no.) > > If you like, just suggest to users, somewhere, to > start using that binding. See if its use becomes > popular, THEN revisit the question here of giving > it `kill-region's longstanding default binding. > > Just one opinion. Did you notice that this behavior is off by default?
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 17:55:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.17149316588874 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Cc: "philipk@HIDDEN" <philipk@HIDDEN>, "rms@HIDDEN" <rms@HIDDEN>, "69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, "juri@HIDDEN" <juri@HIDDEN> Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.17149316588874 (code B ref 69097); Sun, 05 May 2024 17:55:02 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2024 17:54:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32775 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s3g42-0002J4-3A for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; 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X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 18:28:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.171493366210329 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.171493366210329 (code B ref 69097); Sun, 05 May 2024 18:28:02 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2024 18:27:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32923 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s3gaM-0002gX-CJ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2024 14:27:42 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:51209) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <philipk@HIDDEN>) id 1s3gaI-0002gR-P8 for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2024 14:27:41 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F036E240101 for <69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 5 May 2024 20:27:08 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1714933629; bh=tzDLoSsseo9ZZBsir0cwSpcz+xQhIvCGT9YQx+z8XsE=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:OpenPGP:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type:From; b=nhTvVvJoz+1bEH2gbZbU9lAAanZggmtztC7LF21R9qQ59m5xTJDrUKYlh2u+9BOtD 9u24lMcLZLkeKWwrLYEJDh0sDcsKKj+tnGBGH7NNnKvcAxtywvWnHRrq78h+2jPp2v lyOvHos5lLA+zAerSCETFIhZNBVzCbU3E7h2U6qJNVGM2i5yd00qfRYXeukTO5LBDv MpalWk++F3VltkJnBrRPrxFkk8/1ZiNvwShZEb0am1947ZPmo0ruDKPYAlqKCoeiLh eaSZqvDNvkml3hTn3ZVzhtJz7e+2iwoGueBJjIJAAHl9+Wu+O6iBP2rmwvtbMyygqn dvFmPJBC3za+A== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4VXY0r1TXNz6txc; Sun, 5 May 2024 20:27:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <86jzk8i48t.fsf@HIDDEN> (Juri Linkov's message of "Sun, 05 May 2024 19:59:46 +0300") References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmob73ds.fsf@HIDDEN> <861q6jji0i.fsf@HIDDEN> <87o79n6uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <86v83vi2kr.fsf@HIDDEN> <86seyzi2by.fsf@HIDDEN> <87cyq26bt8.fsf@HIDDEN> <864jbeixkt.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jbe65u0.fsf@HIDDEN> <8634qwkbtc.fsf@HIDDEN> <86h6fceij2.fsf@HIDDEN> <86zft4jl5d.fsf@HIDDEN> <87plu05hcu.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jzk8i48t.fsf@HIDDEN> OpenPGP: id=7126E1DE2F0CE35C770BED01F2C3CC513DB89F66; url="https://keys.openpgp.org/vks/v1/by-fingerprint/7126E1DE2F0CE35C770BED01F2C3CC513DB89F66"; preference=signencrypt Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 18:27:07 +0000 Message-ID: <87le4o2jyc.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> writes: >>>>> > +(defcustom kill-word-if-no-region nil >>>>> > + "Non-nil means that `kill-region' without a region will kill the last word." >>>>> > + :type 'boolean >>>>> > + :group 'killing) >>>>> >>>>> What a strange thing. `kill-region' is not related to word commands >>>>> in no way. Why not kill a sentence? Why not kill a line? Why just word? >>>>> All existing commands handle an active region. But there is no commands >>>>> that do in the opposite direction where a general command handles >>>>> one random specific case. This is because the region is a more >>>>> general concept. >>>> >>>> https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=69097#14 is supposed to >>>> provide the rationale (consistency with what C-w does in a terminal, >>>> which I presume means in Bash or similar programs which use >>>> Readline?). >>> >>> So this is for Readline compatibility: >>> >>> unix-word-rubout (C-w) >>> Kill the word behind point, using white space as a word boundary. >>> The killed text is saved on the kill-ring. >>> >>> Then I have no opinion, since 'backward-kill-word' (C-<backspace>, M-DEL). >>> already does this just fine. >> >> Right, the initial command just merges `backward-kill-word' and >> `kill-region' into one. > > There are two ways to merge: > 1. `backward-kill-word' into `kill-region' > 2. `kill-region' into `backward-kill-word' And 3. a separate command, like `kill-region-or-word' > I don't know why prefer one over another. -- Philip Kaludercic on peregrine
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Mon, 06 May 2024 00:23:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.17149549734245 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> Cc: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.17149549734245 (code B ref 69097); Mon, 06 May 2024 00:23:02 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2024 00:22:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34354 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s3m81-00016P-L2 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2024 20:22:52 -0400 Received: from sendmail.purelymail.com ([34.202.193.197]:56076) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <spwhitton@HIDDEN>) id 1s3m7w-00016H-Qk for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2024 20:22:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256; b=et2p9G5JuslMysHWtoLqH6MuQsfCNnphC9jkF/dl+y/WSwiQcAx3lMIhjwsZy2sRiBowqgrT6dRlGgMfsoTY+VEQW1mlyjztafqeh8cNMGofitt4ePi/QQ6Q8CITSukXQcolnF39aQIVgtYBuKJqED0hgPss2ylY0VfFCQrV4KSPLBHj6afZ8pLmhwN6e4wIUFvq2nB/LKFd3jYTtgOXAmx72wDGb2rtSeWOsMN0TKoP/W7H5tOs+zYdb242W0OlQxlggPdi7ZhXIDnnnsyINp9RcPblZSrO09DGjk03UVdUd1Bn/0ZSNsgvqkswIf5c/BBH75GXUmNDIfDDetPohA==; s=purelymail1; d=spwhitton.name; v=1; bh=mmIi1wCj25mmpWDADdHZqDZbI3PuwmSWrkGO4FUJy6g=; h=Received:From:Subject:To; DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256; b=IXveq1KYovuPrpdHaZrC/6V9aICVQ6bng5qTDYRZcdTBNgMW3lFFwBHZuaPrgSMXAnLMABSidfP+Tk/d3UT1a4MFxU+QuPsFobuNdDK8hYVW6ujkZLqMU2Kpzmo/fHGyLDeX8oAJIYfVPxV0fE7yMI17MhBSkmsq+FQGZ8eB5kKojXioTRoL+KXQLJFBTeHVRcjDjvkrEJdJQt7XAejBDaUD4/hO1xFPM/E2Y5vtWKEbwW8lffwee858djQBwAzQwR6gnk9CJPukxRPuM5EMRvgJYGxAK0+AYioNKnvofCEGmzrwkmdfk1siON30m2sZjbBAVS+33I1Wd9sAj9r1ug==; s=purelymail1; d=purelymail.com; v=1; bh=mmIi1wCj25mmpWDADdHZqDZbI3PuwmSWrkGO4FUJy6g=; h=Feedback-ID:Received:From:Subject:To; Feedback-ID: 20115:3760:null:purelymail X-Pm-Original-To: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: by smtp.purelymail.com (Purelymail SMTP) with ESMTPSA id -183066484; (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384); Mon, 06 May 2024 00:22:11 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Mon, 6 May 2024 01:21:59 +0100 Message-Id: <1A1EDC83-2E69-4570-A7E4-2DAA64B9C6DB@HIDDEN> References: <86zft4jl5d.fsf@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <86zft4jl5d.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (21E236) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) M-DEL and unix-word-rubout have different word boundaries though. I have bin= dings for both. --=20 Sean Whitton Please excuse top-posting and brevity. I am writing to you from a mobile pho= ne. > On 5 May 2024, at 17:45, Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >>=20 >>>> +(defcustom kill-word-if-no-region nil >>>> + "Non-nil means that `kill-region' without a region will kill the las= t word." >>>> + :type 'boolean >>>> + :group 'killing) >>>=20 >>> What a strange thing. `kill-region' is not related to word commands >>> in no way. Why not kill a sentence? Why not kill a line? Why just wor= d? >>> All existing commands handle an active region. But there is no commands= >>> that do in the opposite direction where a general command handles >>> one random specific case. This is because the region is a more >>> general concept. >>=20 >> https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D69097#14 is supposed to >> provide the rationale (consistency with what C-w does in a terminal, >> which I presume means in Bash or similar programs which use >> Readline?). >=20 > So this is for Readline compatibility: >=20 > unix-word-rubout (C-w) > Kill the word behind point, using white space as a word boundary. > The killed text is saved on the kill-ring. >=20 > Then I have no opinion, since 'backward-kill-word' (C-<backspace>, M-DEL).= > already does this just fine. >=20 >=20 >=20
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Mon, 06 May 2024 16:48:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.171501402226409 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>, philipk@HIDDEN, rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.171501402226409 (code B ref 69097); Mon, 06 May 2024 16:48:02 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2024 16:47:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39024 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s41US-0006re-SF for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 May 2024 12:47:02 -0400 Received: from sendmail.purelymail.com ([34.202.193.197]:54792) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <spwhitton@HIDDEN>) id 1s41UJ-0006rT-TV for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 May 2024 12:46:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256; b=K7+zr2RXXvFp0oSMFMHZXAjjxmxJQ9RtzLKvFPcxBL+lhQu7Hv7K3+ERsvYe4qJ/oagooHm7+sGT2UMy77R6TETZ9V0MVSPK2TofF87hIq96z8kNsIGuPFxIq3XmH5msvxF1Jetr0Z5SNwOaOEIdPehIix/aAtMYhU3hsZPXxOVWVu/dJHB+O+Axy+sqvQPsoHNyRPzG1M6zcLv2Wvzzo90lTIKhQuzDuElc6qVLUJ3k9ewx4S7TeyB/40/V7lDXRjDU7/6iKKpHe43xrWkv1YrHWHApU7ugKRaMxkpe9XC7er7YmEIhbZwlTdbJUSIJDjcWV3dPkhNsej+VqbUH4g==; s=purelymail2; d=spwhitton.name; v=1; bh=HLUgBBPHceRuaWMKGQZFfcvvCSyIURgXC+uRjjSgn4E=; h=Received:Received:From:To:Subject; DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256; b=Itjy0Et8AKHbAd295ofCBupm5Jy0IZkCno/GUZxpwTsmmzI940UmFUnGQRgeqCZxMZY/MnuZF1XliURcEYWJcYqmcIi+Uod2KGcn9oHosorBOIMTRt5kf5mP7zuBMk6K0qqIsbDwlusI1KH/H1qw28kcV+z8CARwUowatgsreKrUyUo8y4PJc0hyOvXO7PAsEBKvbIFDuTC2b6cuwsT3sU2m00RCb4opkhg6EC5CXKsSwmYh4UV5scPopnmwMub/bMYrSZaq8rc/n+5uSW7qd18ZU6HTMiSUOiRRk0vkIPqbIptrAjsjpEqY23Wd6VgUAFeAnCJ9MpuP/EiA9nXyPw==; s=purelymail2; d=purelymail.com; v=1; bh=HLUgBBPHceRuaWMKGQZFfcvvCSyIURgXC+uRjjSgn4E=; h=Feedback-ID:Received:Received:From:To:Subject; Feedback-ID: 20115:3760:null:purelymail X-Pm-Original-To: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: by smtp.purelymail.com (Purelymail SMTP) with ESMTPSA id 868498774; (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384); Mon, 06 May 2024 16:46:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by zephyr.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4D620947D9B; Mon, 6 May 2024 17:46:20 +0100 (BST) From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <86h6fceij2.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 05 May 2024 12:04:49 +0300") References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmob73ds.fsf@HIDDEN> <861q6jji0i.fsf@HIDDEN> <87o79n6uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <86v83vi2kr.fsf@HIDDEN> <86seyzi2by.fsf@HIDDEN> <87cyq26bt8.fsf@HIDDEN> <864jbeixkt.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jbe65u0.fsf@HIDDEN> <8634qwkbtc.fsf@HIDDEN> <86h6fceij2.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 06 May 2024 17:46:20 +0100 Message-ID: <87edaeevmr.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, On Sun 05 May 2024 at 12:04pm +03, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 09:53:19 +0300 >> >> > +(defcustom kill-word-if-no-region nil >> > + "Non-nil means that `kill-region' without a region will kill the last word." >> > + :type 'boolean >> > + :group 'killing) >> >> What a strange thing. `kill-region' is not related to word commands >> in no way. Why not kill a sentence? Why not kill a line? Why just word? >> All existing commands handle an active region. But there is no commands >> that do in the opposite direction where a general command handles >> one random specific case. This is because the region is a more >> general concept. > > https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=69097#14 is supposed to > provide the rationale (consistency with what C-w does in a terminal, > which I presume means in Bash or similar programs which use > Readline?). I am concerned that the difference between Emacs's backward-kill-word and the tty unix-word-rubout is not being taken into account with this change proposal. In bash on Linux there is actually both M-DEL and C-w, and they do different things, and it's useful to have both. E.g. if you have a half-entered command % foo bar/baz/quux with point at the end of the line, then M-DEL can be used to delete individual path components, e.g. M-DEL M-DEL will get you % foo bar/ which is nice if you need to correct some path components. But C-w always deletes back to whitespace, in this case leaving just 'foo', so you can replace the whole argument, or several arguments, with C-w, instead of having to type M-DEL lots of times. So if what we're aiming for here is concordance with the terminal, then the fallback behaviour should not be Emacs's backward-kill-word, but a new command that's more like unix-word-rubout. But then, I'm not sure introducing something that funadmental to Emacs's basic command set is appropriate in the context of thinking about fallback behaviour. (I have C-w in Emacs be like unix-word-rubout, keep M-DEL as the default, and move kill-region elsewhere.) -- Sean Whitton
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#69097: [PATCH] Add 'kill-region-or-word' command Resent-From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Mon, 06 May 2024 16:53:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.69097.B69097.171501434526647 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69097 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>, philipk@HIDDEN, rms@HIDDEN, 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 69097-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B69097.171501434526647 (code B ref 69097); Mon, 06 May 2024 16:53:01 +0000 Received: (at 69097) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2024 16:52:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39064 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s41Zh-0006vj-5s for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 May 2024 12:52:25 -0400 Received: from sendmail.purelymail.com ([34.202.193.197]:56186) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <spwhitton@HIDDEN>) id 1s41Zf-0006va-Lu for 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 May 2024 12:52:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256; b=Gts0lDFYqUBuLO/rUwlcYyeFxXsvoQ9aJUMujyT7h1QuEZ7bMYLOLLeXgmqWRzclqJCvZZue8y2wAqStYD0Ouzz/If3Jpjy9f2fu8F6YjeQlOkJWyYm6sJoqS2v38xZ3pjUU1ENB66Qhf8Alw5WEUPCqXDiPE8G/YmhzL65brFzvR+RFbsOwARGVkABaFl7F34oEHr0wAQhGHQ//f8Oauxl2Syd8/6j35f7yD9K2IMoYfMMgE7m5zNKlrObO9y3ikCaIGkxWvfIxpeU5e8+Idu3/yxTmzV2eHrHPV8GPFbSDHF6sTI+vcb1+/lcsjVseG3PyBwBKdyWBadh1peejoQ==; s=purelymail2; d=spwhitton.name; v=1; bh=JPA+sIAI37mqWXrpK9hGpP/GmJ6g1GP8INLoyPXL3ro=; h=Received:Received:From:To:Subject; DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256; b=Xd3ysO/DUhuMoPl4kyTBpOKs+05So+eAi64Svhd24AIcwVEyit4BBWAuvNqqvKtRpEyNwQpQqfByZhJuNbqmYIPUaUHF4nBal6hXBcrdsxGMZyLm/HUWAfJhqAd4Dflk6TqXg+fonlCvpnwf7IkpRFlGTJKjp6uY/XH/1h06nchSkKoOwI7V4BIt9aay/T71a9LiJKMoRTANXjV01KQv/9qIDAPui+KE1cneZufZjn/vhSsL9PT+nbjlygwyO01RdPQX/HJHBST/wN7g5mF7R3zj+yt8Utxbt/jEFYeG8UpdEYofYn8epnSE0NwuuELhWY0KfjGEZwTnJ8g4CJz/4w==; s=purelymail2; d=purelymail.com; v=1; bh=JPA+sIAI37mqWXrpK9hGpP/GmJ6g1GP8INLoyPXL3ro=; h=Feedback-ID:Received:Received:From:To:Subject; Feedback-ID: 20115:3760:null:purelymail X-Pm-Original-To: 69097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: by smtp.purelymail.com (Purelymail SMTP) with ESMTPSA id -2100807552; (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384); Mon, 06 May 2024 16:51:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by zephyr.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 25FC9947D9B; Mon, 6 May 2024 17:51:48 +0100 (BST) From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87edaeevmr.fsf@HIDDEN> (Sean Whitton's message of "Mon, 06 May 2024 17:46:20 +0100") References: <871q9g8z8k.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmob73ds.fsf@HIDDEN> <861q6jji0i.fsf@HIDDEN> <87o79n6uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <86v83vi2kr.fsf@HIDDEN> <86seyzi2by.fsf@HIDDEN> <87cyq26bt8.fsf@HIDDEN> <864jbeixkt.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jbe65u0.fsf@HIDDEN> <8634qwkbtc.fsf@HIDDEN> <86h6fceij2.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edaeevmr.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 06 May 2024 17:51:48 +0100 Message-ID: <87a5l2evdn.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, On Mon 06 May 2024 at 05:46pm +01, Sean Whitton wrote: > > In bash on Linux [...] I specifically called out Linux because while GNU readline has a unix-word-rubout command, C-w in the Linux tty is actually implemented in the Linux-specific tty layer, below readline. -- Sean Whitton
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