GNU bug report logs - #22207
emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>
To: Emacs bug reports <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Subject: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 10:25:25 -0800

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

When I use emacs-25 to view the Elisp manual on Fedora 23 x86-64, Emacs 
mishandles the font for code: code is displayed in a considerably 
smaller font, making the manual harder to read and looking a bit like a 
ransom note. A sample is attached. I am using 'emacs -Q' to read the 
info file. If I view the same (i.e., the emacs-25) info file with Emacs 
24.5 as bundled with Fedora, the display looks fine, with the same 
fixed-width font used for all text.


In GNU Emacs 25.0.50.8 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.18.6)
 of 2015-12-17
Repository revision: 1b5630eb47d3f4bade09708c958ab006b83b3fc0
Windowing system distributor 'Fedora Project', version 11.0.11800000
Configured using:
 'configure --enable-gcc-warnings'

Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG IMAGEMAGICK SOUND GPM DBUS GCONF GSETTINGS
NOTIFY ACL LIBSELINUX GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
  value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=ibus
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Info

Minor modes in effect:
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  buffer-read-only: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent messages:
Checking 24 files in /home/eggert/src/gnu/emacs/my/lisp/cedet...
Checking 57 files in /home/eggert/src/gnu/emacs/my/lisp/calendar...
Checking 87 files in /home/eggert/src/gnu/emacs/my/lisp/calc...
Checking 122 files in /home/eggert/src/gnu/emacs/my/lisp/obsolete...
Checking for load-path shadows...done
You can run the command ‘report-emacs-bug’ with M-x r-em RET
Checking for load-path shadows...done
Auto-saving...done
Quit [3 times]
C-M-g is undefined

Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
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rfc822 mml mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231
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mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils help-fns help-mode cl-loaddefs pcase
cl-lib shell pcomplete comint ansi-color ring info easymenu time-date
mule-util tooltip eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks
lisp-float-type mwheel x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset
image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list newcomment elisp-mode lisp-mode
prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar
mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cl-generic cham
georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao
korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech
european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese charscript case-table epa-hook
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sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget
hashtable-print-readable backquote dbusbind inotify dynamic-setting
system-font-setting font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x
multi-tty make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 123742 15169)
 (symbols 48 19951 3)
 (miscs 40 89 292)
 (strings 32 23330 7050)
 (string-bytes 1 657185)
 (vectors 16 12693)
 (vector-slots 8 432940 13272)
 (floats 8 150 162)
 (intervals 56 4895 83)
 (buffers 976 16)
 (heap 1024 38893 944))

[Screenshot from 2015-12-18 10-21-19.png (image/png, attachment)]

Message #8 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>
Cc: 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:57:36 -0500

Paul Eggert wrote:

> When I use emacs-25 to view the Elisp manual on Fedora 23 x86-64,
> Emacs mishandles the font for code: code is displayed in a
> considerably smaller font, making the manual harder to read and
> looking a bit like a ransom note. 

I guess this is the same issue as http://debbugs.gnu.org/19889
Info-quoted face specifies Courier font.
I still don't think it's a good idea.

Message #15 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 21:40:03 +0200

> From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:57:36 -0500
> Cc: 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Paul Eggert wrote:
> 
> > When I use emacs-25 to view the Elisp manual on Fedora 23 x86-64,
> > Emacs mishandles the font for code: code is displayed in a
> > considerably smaller font, making the manual harder to read and
> > looking a bit like a ransom note. 
> 
> I guess this is the same issue as http://debbugs.gnu.org/19889
> Info-quoted face specifies Courier font.
> I still don't think it's a good idea.

Yes, this is a deliberate feature.  Perhaps we should make it
dependent on a defcustom.

Message #18 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 14:49:15 -0500

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> Info-quoted face specifies Courier font.
>> I still don't think it's a good idea.
>
> Yes, this is a deliberate feature.  Perhaps we should make it
> dependent on a defcustom.

A face is a customizable object.
The issue is that the default is bad.
Emacs wants a monospace/typewriter style font.
"Sans mono" may be a better default, but I'm sure that will be wrong
sometimes too. Can Emacs do the equivalent of

fc-match "Monospace"

?

Message #21 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 22:32:34 +0200

> From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
> Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu,  22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 14:49:15 -0500
> 
> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> >> Info-quoted face specifies Courier font.
> >> I still don't think it's a good idea.
> >
> > Yes, this is a deliberate feature.  Perhaps we should make it
> > dependent on a defcustom.
> 
> A face is a customizable object.

How many Emacs users will know what change to make in a face to have
@code{} display like the normal text?

What I had in mind was a binary option telling Emacs whether to use a
distinct face for @code.  I think this is way easier to customize than
a face's font.

> Emacs wants a monospace/typewriter style font.
> "Sans mono" may be a better default, but I'm sure that will be wrong
> sometimes too. Can Emacs do the equivalent of
> 
> fc-match "Monospace"

How will that help?  Someone, somewhere will still dislike the result.

But yes, Emacs can do this: call x-family-fonts with no arguments, and
then filter the returned list to retain only those fonts whose FIXED-P
element is t.

Message #24 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Wolfgang Jenkner <wjenkner <at> inode.at>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>, eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 15:21:10 +0100

On Fri, Dec 18 2015, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> fc-match "Monospace"
>
> How will that help?  Someone, somewhere will still dislike the result.

Mono(space) is a fontconfig alias, it's explicitly selected in
a configuration file[*] and users are supposed to override it if they don't
like it.

[*] http://cgit.freedesktop.org/fontconfig/tree/conf.d/60-latin.conf

(Often, fonts install their own font config files which override the
default configuration).

Message #27 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Wolfgang Jenkner <wjenkner <at> inode.at>
Cc: rgm <at> gnu.org, eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 16:42:44 +0200

> From: Wolfgang Jenkner <wjenkner <at> inode.at>
> Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>,  eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu,  22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 15:21:10 +0100
> 
> On Fri, Dec 18 2015, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> >> fc-match "Monospace"
> >
> > How will that help?  Someone, somewhere will still dislike the result.
> 
> Mono(space) is a fontconfig alias, it's explicitly selected in
> a configuration file[*] and users are supposed to override it if they don't
> like it.

That means an even more complex mess: suppose Emacs will use some
fixed-pitch font from that alias, and the user doesn't like it -- now
the user will have to be familiar not only with font specs for
customizing faces, but also with the fontconfig customizations and
configuration files.  Doesn't strike me as a particularly
user-friendly feature.

Once again, I suggest a single binary defcustom that could be used to
disable use of a special face for code typeface.  We could (and
probably should) tell in NEWS how to get back the old behavior by
customizing that variable.  This is by far simpler than silently
assuming users will futz with their font setups.

Message #30 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Wolfgang Jenkner <wjenkner <at> inode.at>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 16:28:19 +0100

On Sat, Dec 19 2015, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> >> fc-match "Monospace"
>> >
>> > How will that help?  Someone, somewhere will still dislike the result.
>> 
>> Mono(space) is a fontconfig alias, it's explicitly selected in
>> a configuration file[*] and users are supposed to override it if they don't
>> like it.
>
> That means an even more complex mess: suppose Emacs will use some
> fixed-pitch font from that alias, and the user doesn't like it -- now
> the user will have to be familiar not only with font specs for
> customizing faces, but also with the fontconfig customizations and
> configuration files.  Doesn't strike me as a particularly
> user-friendly feature.

fc-match returns a single match.  Also, emacs does know about fontconfig
aliases (info "(emacs) Fonts").  The problem is that specifying an alias
name as the family attribute doesn't always work as expected (because
emacs font selection weighs font attributes in a different way).

For example, on my system

$ fc-match Serif
NotoSerif-Regular.ttf: "Noto Serif" "Regular"
$ 

However, if I customize the Info-quoted face replacing "courier" by
"Serif" I get

xft:-unknown-Sawasdee-normal-normal-normal-*-13-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1

Not a big problem, but just to elaborate a bit on Glenn's suggestion.

Message #33 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Wolfgang Jenkner <wjenkner <at> inode.at>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 17:07:32 +0100

On Sat, Dec 19 2015, Wolfgang Jenkner wrote:

> The problem is that specifying an alias
> name as the family attribute doesn't always work as expected (because
> emacs font selection weighs font attributes in a different way).

My parenthetical remark above about font attribute weights may be
misleading as I haven't actually investigated the situation.

> However, if I customize the Info-quoted face replacing "courier" by
> "Serif" I get

> xft:-unknown-Sawasdee-normal-normal-normal-*-13-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1

While specifying "Noto Serif" instead works as expected.

Message #36 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Wolfgang Jenkner <wjenkner <at> inode.at>
Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 18:57:10 +0200

> From: Wolfgang Jenkner <wjenkner <at> inode.at>
> Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu,  22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 16:28:19 +0100
> 
> On Sat, Dec 19 2015, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> >> >> fc-match "Monospace"
> >> >
> >> > How will that help?  Someone, somewhere will still dislike the result.
> >> 
> >> Mono(space) is a fontconfig alias, it's explicitly selected in
> >> a configuration file[*] and users are supposed to override it if they don't
> >> like it.
> >
> > That means an even more complex mess: suppose Emacs will use some
> > fixed-pitch font from that alias, and the user doesn't like it -- now
> > the user will have to be familiar not only with font specs for
> > customizing faces, but also with the fontconfig customizations and
> > configuration files.  Doesn't strike me as a particularly
> > user-friendly feature.
> 
> fc-match returns a single match.

You can use the --all switch to countermand that, AFAIK.

> Also, emacs does know about fontconfig aliases (info "(emacs) Fonts").

Doesn't this mean that your comments about fontconfig customizations
are not relevant to the issue at hand?  AFAIU, Glenn mentioned
fc-match as a way to explain what he meant, he didn't really mean
Emacs to run that command.  If Emacs cannot use its output, then its
configuration by users will never affect us.

And we are back to the original issue: suppose Emacs does run the
_equivalent_ of the above (I mentioned one way of doing it in Emacs):
is there any doubt that someone somewhere will find the results not to
her liking and would like to see the Info-quote face identical to the
rest of the text in an Info buffer?  If so, then trying to use a
fixed-pitch font, even if it's other than Courier, will never succeed
to be a "one size fits all" solution.

Message #39 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 14:16:19 -0500

Glenn Morris wrote:

> fc-match "Monospace"

Actually I see Emacs has a font called fixed-width that does exactly that.
So my simple suggestion for fixing this issue:

  Info-quoted and tex-verbatim face should inherit from fixed-width by default.

(The fact that that specification of fixed-width doesn't appear to work
on either Debian or Red Hat seems a separate issue! Ie, it gives a face
that looks exactly like the default face. "Sans Mono" works for me.
Still, I don't recally anyone ever complaining about the fixed-width face.)

Message #42 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 21:21:32 +0200

> From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
> Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu,  22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 14:16:19 -0500
> 
> Actually I see Emacs has a font called fixed-width that does exactly that.
> So my simple suggestion for fixing this issue:
> 
>   Info-quoted and tex-verbatim face should inherit from fixed-width by default.
> 
> (The fact that that specification of fixed-width doesn't appear to work
> on either Debian or Red Hat seems a separate issue! Ie, it gives a face
> that looks exactly like the default face.

Probably because the default font is a fixed-pitch font, no?  IOW,
wouldn't this be a no-op on all platforms?

> "Sans Mono" works for me.

Where "works" means what?

Message #45 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: rgm <at> gnu.org
Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 21:25:30 +0200

> Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 21:21:32 +0200
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
> Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> > From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
> > Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu,  22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 14:16:19 -0500
> > 
> > Actually I see Emacs has a font called fixed-width that does exactly that.

Do you mean the fixed-pitch _face_?  I don't think I see the
fixed-width font.

> > So my simple suggestion for fixing this issue:
> > 
> >   Info-quoted and tex-verbatim face should inherit from fixed-width by default.

Here you mean a face, not a font, and again I don't see any face named
fixed-width.  What am I missing?

Message #48 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 14:31:14 -0500

(Typo, I meant "fixed-pitch".)

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> Probably because the default font is a fixed-pitch font, no?  IOW,
> wouldn't this be a no-op on all platforms?

Durh, probably, yes. Silly me.

>> "Sans Mono" works for me.
>
> Where "works" means what?

Gives a face that looks different from the default in "the right way"
for a "typewriter" face. The default face is "DejaVu Sans Mono",
"Sans Mono" selects "Latin Modern Mono". This all sounds like a massive
fluke now that I look at the details.

Anyway, as Stefan suggested, there should be some single face that
Info-quoted and tex-verbatim inherit from. What the defaults of that face
should be are another issue. Inherit from string face?

Message #51 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 21:51:30 +0200

> From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
> Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu,  22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 14:31:14 -0500
> 
> 
> (Typo, I meant "fixed-pitch".)

OK, in that case, this face is not like the default one on my system.
Its only attribute that is not "unspecified" is the "font family",
which is "Monospace".  I think this is what you wanted.

The Info-quoted face has its font family set to "courier", but at
least here it uses exactly the same font as fixed-pitch.

So I'm unsure how using fixed-pitch or inheriting from it would solve
the problem.  It is slightly cleaner, in that there's a single parent
face, but I guess Paul will still be unhappy with the results.

> Gives a face that looks different from the default in "the right way"
> for a "typewriter" face. The default face is "DejaVu Sans Mono",
> "Sans Mono" selects "Latin Modern Mono". This all sounds like a massive
> fluke now that I look at the details.

So on some systems the fixed-pitch face will be nicer than the current
Info-quoted, on others it will be the same, and perhaps on still
others it will be uglier.

> Inherit from string face?

You mean, font-lock-string-face?

Message #54 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 22:40:56 -0500

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> Inherit from string face?
>
> You mean, font-lock-string-face?

Yes.
Anyway, I think I am just muddying the waters, so will shut up.
See the merged bug for Stefan's ideas.

Message #57 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 17:44:15 +0200

> From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
> Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu,  22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 22:40:56 -0500
> 
> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> >> Inherit from string face?
> >
> > You mean, font-lock-string-face?
> 
> Yes.
> Anyway, I think I am just muddying the waters, so will shut up.
> See the merged bug for Stefan's ideas.

Let's start with fixed-pitch -- Paul, does that display OK on that
Fedora 23 system?  Glenn, does that display differently from the
default font on yours?

Message #60 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 13:14:35 -0800

Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> Let's start with fixed-pitch -- Paul, does that display OK on that
> Fedora 23 system?

Sorry, I don't know what you're asking me to try here. Can you give me some 
Elisp code to evaluate? I can try it the next time I'm at my Fedora 23 workstation.

Message #63 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>
Cc: rgm <at> gnu.org, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 18:18:46 +0200

> Cc: 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>
> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 13:14:35 -0800
> 
> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Let's start with fixed-pitch -- Paul, does that display OK on that
> > Fedora 23 system?
> 
> Sorry, I don't know what you're asking me to try here. Can you give me some 
> Elisp code to evaluate? I can try it the next time I'm at my Fedora 23 workstation.

In "emacs -Q", evaluate this in *scratch* (before loading Info):

  (defface Info-quoted
    '((t :family "Monospace"))
    "Face used for quoted elements.")

then type "C-u C-h i" to read some manual where you previously didn't
like how code text looks, and see if it now looks better.

Thanks.

Message #66 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: rgm <at> gnu.org, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:29:07 -0800

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

[Following up on an old bug report that I mislaid]:

On 12/21/2015 08:18 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> In "emacs -Q", evaluate this in*scratch*  (before loading Info):
>
>    (defface Info-quoted
>      '((t :family "Monospace"))
>      "Face used for quoted elements.")
>
> then type "C-u C-h i" to read some manual where you previously didn't
> like how code text looks, and see if it now looks better.

It looks different, but still not good. Now, the code text looks exactly 
like the non-code text, which is less informative. I'm attaching a 
screenshot of the same text as before.

[Screenshot from 2016-02-12 17-22-38.png (image/png, attachment)]

Message #69 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>
Cc: rgm <at> gnu.org, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 10:53:30 +0200

> Cc: rgm <at> gnu.org, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>
> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:29:07 -0800
> 
> On 12/21/2015 08:18 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > In "emacs -Q", evaluate this in*scratch*  (before loading Info):
> >
> >    (defface Info-quoted
> >      '((t :family "Monospace"))
> >      "Face used for quoted elements.")
> >
> > then type "C-u C-h i" to read some manual where you previously didn't
> > like how code text looks, and see if it now looks better.
> 
> It looks different, but still not good. Now, the code text looks exactly 
> like the non-code text, which is less informative. I'm attaching a 
> screenshot of the same text as before.

But if your default font is already monospaced, what would you expect
from Info-quoted face to produce?  I thought the result which you
describe is exactly what was wanted in this case.  IIRC, we had that
before the change that introduced this face.

Message #72 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: rgm <at> gnu.org, 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 10:33:32 -0800

Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> if your default font is already monospaced, what would you expect
> from Info-quoted face to produce?  I thought the result which you
> describe is exactly what was wanted in this case.  IIRC, we had that
> before the change that introduced this face.

Sorry, you're right; I forgot about the old behavior.

Ideally code would be in a different monospaced font, one that is readable. 
Perhaps a bolder font, say. So the change was an improvement in that it uses a 
different monospaced font, but it's a disimprovement in that the different font 
is irritatingly small.

Message #77 received at 22207-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>
To: 22207-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 13:48:50 -0700

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

I just now attempted to reproduce this bug on emacs-25, and could not 
reproduce it; the display looks OK (see attached). Although I am still 
running Fedora 23 x86-64, I have installed several packages since the 
original bug report in December so it's possible that the problem has 
gone away because some new fonts have been installed. Another 
possibility is that the bug has been fixed in draft Emacs 25 somehow. 
Either way, I will close this particular bug report now as I can't 
reproduce it.

[Screenshot-from-2016-05-05-13-45-22.png (image/png, attachment)]

Message #87 received at 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: 22207 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu
Subject: Re: bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23
Date: Thu, 05 May 2016 17:29:20 -0400

Paul Eggert wrote:

> I just now attempted to reproduce this bug on emacs-25, and could not
> reproduce it; the display looks OK (see attached). Although I am still
> running Fedora 23 x86-64, I have installed several packages since the
> original bug report in December so it's possible that the problem has
> gone away because some new fonts have been installed. Another
> possibility is that the bug has been fixed in draft Emacs 25 somehow.
> Either way, I will close this particular bug report now as I can't
> reproduce it.

Nothing's changed in Emacs, and Info-quoted and tex-verbatim faces
continue to look poor on RHEL 7, so I unmerged and reopened my own
#19889.

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